We are all taught (at least most of us are) that honesty is a virtue, and that we should not lie to people. At least, that's the ideal.

A piece by Amy Alkon that Dr. Helen linked raises the question of whether there is any duty of honesty towards assholes. Alkon lives near what used to be a regular neighborhood "drunk bar" (I call them "dive bars" and they have a certain charm) which was turned into a popular "hipster" bar, with predictablly negative quality of life consequences. Alkon discovered that asking drunken hipsters to be quiet and courteous did not work, but that they did respond when she falsely told them that their noise was disturbing the baby:

there's a good chance some team of assholes will be out in front of my house bellowing at 2 a.m. Like last night. Twice. Once at 1 a.m., and then another crew at 2 a.m.

I used to point out the proximity of the houses -- like, four feet away from where their car is parked, not behind some thick thicket of trees, and note that it's 2 a.m. and people (like me) were sleeping, and/or would like to be. This gets them combative. Even though I like to call an asshole an asshole, it appears to be an extremely counterproductive technique.

My new move is to come out and say, "Excuse me, my baby's sleeping..." Shuts the assholes right up and gets them to move, to boot. And they even apologize. Nicely. So...if you're 45 and would like to sleep, "Fuck you!"...but if you've extruded a child, "We're so sorry, Ma'am"?

What do you make of this?

I like the idea of a right to lie to obnoxious drunks and other assholes, and I agree with what commenter "brian" "Toubrouk" said:

As far as I am concerned, when someone start acting like an asshole, he forfeit all the human decency I could give him. This includes all the lies I can safely tell them.

Anyway, there's no right to bother people in their homes in residential neighborhoods. As Amy Alkon put it in a comment,

Your right to shout outside my house at 2 a.m. ends where my ears begin.

OTOH, I don't think people who live in commercial areas have the same right to peace and quiet as people in a residential area. As to areas zoned for multiple residences, it gets trickier. Apartment buildings are inherently noisier than single family residences, and rental dwellings tend to be noisier than homeowner occupied dwellings. Is the rule of thumb mathematical -- that the more people there are, the less entitlement there is to peace and quiet? Or is it based on fairness? There is nothing "fair" about being kept awake by noise, but if I move into an apartment which faces the parking lot of a 24 hour convenience store, I don't think that would give me the right to have the place shut down so I can sleep.

It would, however, give me the right to tell the parking lot noisemakers that they're disturbing my baby.

Why, here she is!

Coco hates obnoxious drunks (whether in convenience store parking lots or elsewhere), so I really wouldn't be lying.

MORE: Commenter brian points that I missatributed a comment from "Toubrouk" to him, as the names go below the comments.

brian's comments are well worth reading -- especially what he says to an annoying troll who calls himself a libertarian and then insults libertarians.