I'm sure she will think of something. I can't wait to find out what it is.

You treat the idea of improving America's image abroad with contempt, but can you think of a more effective export than our ideals? If the rest of the world sees the U.S. as not only extolling its own virtues, but *abiding* by its own virtues, we will be better respected in the world, and better able to protect our national interests.

I believe our ideals to be superior to any other currently existing ideals in the world, and if we are able to distinguish ourselves from murdering savages by our own adherence to the rule of law and recognition of human rights, we will undoubtedly win the ideological struggle in the long run.

Nobel -

There has never been a time in the entire history of this nation -- from colonial times through today -- where the world has respected us.

EVER.

And there is nothing we can do short of self-destruction that will earn us the accolades of the rest of the world.

The world community is mean, nasty, opportunistic and backstabbing. No one is respected. Why should we be the special "respected" country?

brian

There has never been a time in the entire history of this nation -- from colonial times through today -- where the world has respected us.

I would concede that there never has been, nor never will be, a worldwide consensus on any matter, but to assert that "there is nothing we can do short of self-destruction that will earn us the accolades of the rest of the world" is just indulgent self-pity. When the rest of world respects us and wants to emulate us, our security and prosperity increase as a result; we attract top-level scientists and scholars from around the world, our industry finds more open markets, and the use of our other forms of power becomes immeasurably easier.

Our global power is not confined to our economy and our arms, and if we limit ourselves to those avenues we will have a much more difficult (if not impossible) fight on our hands against radical fundamentalism. Our ideals are better than those of the Taliban, al Queda, et al, and we only harm ourselves when we refuse to practice them.

Dr. No,

We seem to have exported our ideals rather successfully to Iraq (they wanted McCain to win by about 60-40) and yet the world hates us for that.

Go figure.

Our ideal better than the Taliban? Depends on who you are talking to.

I gotta disagree, there has rarely been a time when America has not been respected.
Hated, reviled, attacked and everything else, but we are respected.
Why else do you think that the ends of the protest lines around our embassies are the beginning of the visa lines? Why else did we see people in African countries like Liberia and in Lebanon with signs saying "Invade us America, we need you"?
Just because Le Monde, the NY Times and murderous dictators say they don't respect us, doesn't mean that at least one of those group really doesn't respect us. (Of course, Le Monde and the NY Times respect what we could be but dictators have learned to respect us.

Ignorant fools and dictators hate America, but only ignorant fools don't respect us.

Japan was just about the last country to not respect us. How did that work for them?

I would suggest that in the aftermath of Vietnam, where we showed so little intestinal fortitude, we were less respsected and probably not trusted (by allies) but still mostly respected.

America's biggest problem is that we make lefties look bad, our system (obviously the worst in the history of the world) has raised the standard of living and standard of freedom for more people than any thing ever in the history of the world (except maybe the toilet) and for that, there can be no forgiveness from totalitarians (whether soft like socialists or hard like commies).

I'm going to kick myself for responding to Dr. Nobel, but I gotta.

Bush has been trying to export our ideals (freedom, democracy, class), against everything you and your ideological brethren could do and yet, you bleat about how we're not "respected".

You know the other time we weren't respected? By the Soviets during St. Jimmeh's terms. And they were right to not respect us. They invade a country and St. Jimmeh screws a bunch of 16-year-olds.

Nobel -

We don't attract scientists because of our moral authority or because some socialists in France like us.

We attract scientists, doctors, engineers, and lettuce-pickers from all over the world because they will make more money for their efforts here than anywhere else in the world, and can do so more-or-less unmolested by capricious governance.

Greed, for lack of a better word, is Good.

brian

Did Einstein choose to come to the U.S. because he could get rich here?

I agree that economic prosperity attracts more than a few to our shores, but you are absolutely wrong if you think that our standing in the world does not affect our ability to attract the best and the brightest.

You need to work on your tenses there Dr. Nobel.
I'll give you a hint, find the difference between these two statement fragments.

"We attract..."
"We attracted..."

I work in a place with lots of techy immigrants (they are all US citizens, but they're not born here), and they mostly came here for the money. A bunch show no loyalty, one of my lunch buddies is Indian and he's treating America like an ATM, he plans on going back to Asia after he makes some cash.
Also, you do realize that remittances are a huge part of the world economy, specifically, remittances from immigrants in the US sent back home.

I'll also note that even if we were as bad as you apparently believe, we would still be better than Europe in the 30s for any Jew.
Or doesn't your moral relativism let you see that?

Simon

Our ideal better than the Taliban? Depends on who you are talking to.

Anyone who thinks American ideals are not superior to the ideals of the Taliban is a fool, and no serious person thinks otherwise.

Improving our moral standing in the world won't fix everything, and radical fundamentalism won't magically disappear. But, it is a large step in the right direction to actually defeating these people, rather than making endless, pointless war that grinds away our resources and keeps us in perpetual fear.

There appears to be an excess of fools in Afghanistan.

Veeshir

If you're going to pretend to be clever about grammar, just make your point. If you take issue with my use of a tense, please point out the problem and I will do my best to make amends.

Also, you do realize that remittances are a huge part of the world economy, specifically, remittances from immigrants in the US sent back home.

I have no idea of your point. Please explain why that is relevant to the discussion.

I'll also note that even if we were as bad as you apparently believe, we would still be better than Europe in the 30s for any Jew.

I do not believe us to be "bad," I believe we have the capacity to be much, much better. I believe remaining true to the rule of law is not just a virtue for its own sake, but benefits us greatly in the long run.

Or doesn't your moral relativism let you see that?

Unless you're getting a nickel to bring up "moral relativism," I fail to see how that concept is at all relevant to this discussion. In this topic I have specifically stated in no uncertain terms that our ideals are superior to those of the Taliban, al Queda, et al. If you can point out an example of me engaging in "moral relativism," please do so and make your point.

"I believe our ideals to be superior to any other currently existing ideals in the world, and if we are able to distinguish ourselves from murdering savages by our own adherence to the rule of law and recognition of human rights, we will undoubtedly win the ideological struggle in the long run."

and

"rather than making endless, pointless war that grinds away our resources and keeps us in perpetual fear."

LOL...Napolean, you are amusing. I'll give you that.

Dr. No,

Islam has been at war with the rest of the world for 1400 years. Will the Islamics see the light soon? I hope so.

I hope Mr. Obama can soft power them out of existence. If we get another large attack because he went too soft he will be a one term President.

Tell you what though - let his first test be soft powering Hamas into recognizing Israel. They don't have to declare peace - just recognition. That would be a proof of soft power. Want to give me odds?

Tell you what though - let his first test be soft powering Hamas into recognizing Israel. They don't have to declare peace - just recognition. That would be a proof of soft power. Want to give me odds?

I think the odds of people acting like rational, non-insane adults when it comes to the "holy land" are about nil until Jebus comes back.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but I long for the day when the world isn't held hostage to the petty squabbles of Israel/Palestine bullshit, we can tell everyone there to piss off and/or grow up, and we can care more about places that actually produce something in the way of commerce/art/culture other than misery. I don't anticipate that day happening any time soon, however, as it seems everyone there is getting their marching orders directly from God.

the world isn't held hostage to the petty squabbles of Israel/Palestine bullshit, we can tell everyone there to piss off and/or grow up, and we can care more about places that actually produce something in the way of commerce/art/culture

So are you making some sort of moral equivalency argument here between one nation that wants just to live and the other that wants to wipe the first nation and its people from the face of the earth?

Tell me, how are the determined murderer and the resisting victim somehow equally to blame for your discomfort?

The Israelis do pretty good re: commerce/art/culture.

Some very nice fiddle players. Intel has a design center there. Lots of medical discoveries.

It is the Arabs who are the pits.

Darleen

So are you making some sort of moral equivalency argument here between one nation that wants just to live and the other that wants to wipe the first nation and its people from the face of the earth?

Nope, not at all. I am merely pointing out that there are regions of the world with far more people and potential than this dingy little corner, yet the rest of world must revolve around the Israel/Palestine conflict because its a magical land where any number of magical things happened a couple thousand years ago. I'm tired of it.

"I'm tired of it."

Or in other words: "Oh woez! This stuff is a bummer! Why can't the whole world revolve around me and my dislikes!"

Seriously, I do imagine the Israelis are a whole lot more "tired of it" than you are. After all, they actually live there on the receiving end of terrorist attacks as well as the unending chorus of whines from people like you. I suggest that if you're so "tired of it" you turn off the tv -- thanks to people like George W. Bush, you still have that privilege. Or why don't you tell us what can be done about the only people who don't seem to be "tired of it" -- organizations like Hamas who are just chock-full of energy?

I'm tired of it.

Don't watch.

the rest of world must revolve around the Israel/Palestine conflict

Oh? Somehow I don't remember China giving a fig about the Israel/Arab-"Palestinian" war. Or Poland or Lithuania or Ireland or Peru or Tonga ...

what is this "world" you speak of? Or is this your figleaf for you own discomfort?