|
November 15, 2010
God Party vs Tea Party
The TEA Parties have fired a shot across the bow of the old guard of the Republican Party. You will know the old guard better by their philosophy. Simply put: "if you are right on abortion hardly anything else matters." Not fiscal conservatism. Not small government. And especially not winning national elections. Representatives of the loosely organized tea party movement urged GOP leaders in a letter released Monday to abandon their fronts in the culture wars - issues such as gay marriage, school prayer, and abortion - and instead focus their new electoral power on individual liberties and "economic freedoms."The Republican Party as constituted is an unnatural coalition. The interests of the two main factions are not congruent. You have what is essentially a "leave us alone coalition" at odds with the "if we don't have government guns to enforce our moral vision what is the point?" types. Of course it is a rather weak moral vision that requires guns to keep people in line. A contradiction my "moral government" friends don't get. And on top of that government by its nature must engage in immoral acts as a practical matter. Murder, theft, spying, torture, slavery, coercion, etc. Of course we want to keep that sort of thing to a minimum. But until the arrival of the moshiach we are stuck with it. Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. And even when it gets some eloquence it wears thin after a while. Torture elevated by eloquence is still torture. Now about that TEA Party letter [pdf]. (bolding mine) Dear Senator McConnell and Representative BoehnerNow about the Drug War. I think it is too soon for that issue. But we will get to it. It seems rather stupid to have the Feds spend $25 billion a year to make illegal drugs easier for kids to get than legal beer. Here is the heart of the matter. "When they were out in the Boston Harbor, they weren't arguing about who was gay or who was having an abortion," said Ralph King, a letter signatory who is a Tea Party Patriots national leadership council member, as well as an Ohio co-coordinator.Yeah. Leave us the fuck alone. And we are as serious as death about it. H/T Instapundit and Instapundit and a phone call today from a friend. Cross Posted at Power and Control posted by Simon on 11.15.10 at 10:04 PM
Comments
The thing that would make them congruent is federalism. All these social issues are more properly and traditionally matters of State's interest (if that), not the Feds, which has a much more restricted writ. It's a hot item here on RedState: Eric E. Coe · November 16, 2010 01:51 AM Eric, A socon Republican Party can not and will not win National elections. Given a choice between a socon and a communist I will vote for a communist: Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber barons cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. Clive Staples "CS" Lewis But maybe I haven't got far enough into the comments. M. Simon · November 16, 2010 05:24 AM The above was for E. E. Coe. M. Simon · November 16, 2010 06:25 AM I am definitely in favor of "Leave us Alone", but I am not sure that is what many are asking for. I am fine with legalizing adult drug use but not granting protected rights for the users. There are consequences to that and I can live with them. Of course,ignored is not looking too bad for a consequence right now. Will · November 16, 2010 06:53 AM Will, I'm with you on the abortion question (after quickening) before that IMO we have an acorn - not a tree. The problem I have is putting the question in the hands of the government. Suppose the enforcement goes along the lines of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riboisae0JY&feature=related Note: video extremely disturbing. Co-blogger Eric sent me the link. So I support a civil society answer to the question: They want government out of the question. M. Simon · November 16, 2010 07:02 AM Will, The only way the wants and needs of others can enslave you is through the power of government. You are paying $25 bn a year for the wants and needs of dopers. And that is just the direct cost. You are paying for the welfare of families whose males are incarcerated. And there is other social damage: Regulation (along the lines of alcohol) would be far cheaper. Many of the ills of this country derive from the "need" to punish people for their bad habits. (as opposed to direct harm to others) M. Simon · November 16, 2010 07:10 AM I agree that "the power of government" is what I need to worry about and I do. That video is disturbing. Power can corrupt and it always draws the corrupt, who yearn for it.
Will · November 16, 2010 07:49 AM Drug Testing Lowers High Tech Productivity I'd rather have a guy stoned on pot operating heavy machinery than a drunk. The pot heads tend to be safer since they overestimate their relative impairment. The drunks wildly underestimate their condition. In any case the Prop 19 folks will be back in 2012. 2014. 2018. etc. until they figure out a winning combination. M. Simon · November 16, 2010 08:12 AM M.Simon, I see that you are all over* that thread I pointed out earlier. I agree, a socon national Republican party will not work. However, a national Rockefeller Republican party won't work either, for the same reasons in reverse. As several people pointed out in that thread, especially LibertarianHawk Federalism is the only possible way to thread that needle in a stable arrangement - a national party focused on fiscal, foreign policy, etc. and a full-throated support of federalism, and officially neutral on these hot-button issues. And then various state parties taking differing stances on them... Maybe the real problem is with this is the need for a unified national party that crosses these boundaries (the Dems have the same problem, again in reverse). Because of personnel issues (the state political parties being "farm teams" for the national parties), and up-ticket/down-ticket/coattails effects, the drive for a unified platform is strong. So, yeah, the federalism component of the platform would have to be full-throated and strong. And the Republicans may not be able to adapt and do it in a timely fashion. (* Long ago, due to a platform change at RS in combination with issues with my password recovery email address, I lost the ability to log in and post there - although I was not banned and still have a viable (dormant) account. It was too much trouble getting it fixed (they didn't respond to emails), so I just lurk there now.) Eric E. Coe · November 16, 2010 10:48 AM Who is willing to stand up and say on behalf of a fetus about to be aborted "Leave me the F' alone"? I mean, since he/she can't speak and all. Paul A'Barge · November 16, 2010 02:57 PM Paul, How do you keep enforcement from looking like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riboisae0JY And don't forget the above was a mistake. M. Simon · November 16, 2010 04:07 PM And Paul, You want to trust your mate's vagina to the government? Are you insane? M. Simon · November 16, 2010 05:24 PM Paul, The Jewish position on abortion is different: The Jewish Position On Abortion The Jews And Partial Birth Abortion So you want to get your religious position enacted into law? Trying to start a religious war my friend? I see no faster way to kill the TEA Party and give the Democrats an opening to finish their Socialism for the USA project. And you know what? I'd help them. No idle threat my friend. Because I have done it before: M. Simon · November 16, 2010 05:33 PM "trying to start a religious war my friend" Nice.
To wit: 2. ""if we don't have government guns to enforce our moral vision what is the point?" Evidence that this is what socons want? And not from a fringe element. Unless you're willing to say the dems want to ram socialism for the USA down our throat at the point of a gun, something you said you have more affinity with and are more willing to befriend and cede power to than with an anti-abortionist, you're creating a straw man. I'm glad you're so passionate but, obviously, you can't see straight on this stuff. 3. "And you know what? I'd help them." Let's put this in exact terms: If Republicans/Tea Partiers allow anti-abortionists a place then you will actively aid moving this country to socialism. Are you really so small and petty? 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riboisae0JY : Reductio ad absurdum. And, in the same way, we've established that you would rather this country be socialist/communist than have any restrictions on abortion. See how it works? In the end, there is not a single issue where I don't have libertarian leanings. Then I read drivel like this and realize your worse and more intolerant than any social conservative I've ever met. You'd rather live in a communist country than one where people use the political process to try and push their agenda and want restrictions on the things YOU find most important. Bully for you. What makes you think that when the communists take over, with your help, they'll see eye to eye with you? Oh, I forgot, because you're so morally superior that it is simply self-righteously evident to all, without real argument, since you found extremists who disagree with you. So go ahead, work for a communist society. When I'm sitting beside you in a gulag, I'm going to say, "I told you so." (Look, I used your logic to draw another conclusion!)
rrr · November 17, 2010 02:40 PM Post a comment
You may use basic HTML for formatting.
|
|
November 2010
WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR
Search the Site
E-mail
Classics To Go
Archives
November 2010
October 2010 September 2010 August 2010 July 2010 June 2010 May 2010 April 2010 March 2010 February 2010 January 2010 December 2009 November 2009 October 2009 September 2009 August 2009 July 2009 June 2009 May 2009 April 2009 March 2009 February 2009 January 2009 December 2008 November 2008 October 2008 September 2008 August 2008 July 2008 June 2008 May 2008 April 2008 March 2008 February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004 September 2004 August 2004 July 2004 June 2004 May 2004 April 2004 March 2004 February 2004 January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 May 2002 AB 1634 MBAPBSAAGOP Skepticism See more archives here Old (Blogspot) archives
Recent Entries
Letter To A Friend
Sick of whatever I'm sick of, but how sick! This Is An Order A Split You're not special, but WE are -- an open letter to President Obama Abortion Prohibition Enforcement The Drug War Exception Is Sarah Palin Good Or Is She Lucky? The American Sphinx What are those awful bigoted Arizonans smoking?
Links
Site Credits
|
|
I think you may be psychic.