Free to argue or not

Much as I love thoughtful comments (even by those who disagree with me), one of the problems that plagues me is when commenters jump on me by playing GOTCHA games, misreading what I said, putting words in my mouth, or even attributing to me positions I never took or beliefs I do not hold. This happened over the past couple of days, and I was so disgusted that I just didn't feel like blogging.

Too much work.

Writing is that way. If you start worrying that anything and everything you say might be misinterpreted, jumped on, or used as an invitation to start an argument (which is not why I write), it becomes a distraction, and makes writing feel more like a nuisance instead of the creative, introspective process I want it to be. I write to find out what I think and as a release, and I am often engaged in a dialogue with myself. If someone comes along with a goal of starting an argument, then it makes me feel that the post I wrote was not a release, but only created more work for myself in the form of an argument. Arguments remind me of litigation, and I hate litigation. It is the worst sort of drudgery imaginable, and if a post I wrote creates that sort of work for me, then I end up wishing I hadn't written it. I can ignore people's attempts to start arguments, and I have every right to do that, but that does not prevent the distraction phenomenon from setting in and influencing what should be a totally spontaneous process.

But let no one think I am talking only about the reactions of conservative commenters to the post I wrote about Barack Obama's commencement address. Far from it. I can't even compare and contrast male and female genital cutting without activists weighing in and telling me that I need to "do more research about FGM and MGM before making statements about how supposedly different they are." Must I really? Can't I just say what I think? (But at least the "conservative" versus "liberal" positions are less clear on genital cutting issues, so I'm relatively "safe" there.)

Another, more egregious example took the form of leftist comments to a post I wrote about the raid on the Hutaree militia, in which I said the following:

Assuming they are crackpots, they still have the same constitutional rights as everyone else, and I hope for the sake of the rest of us that they are being respected.
That seemed pretty moderate and reasonable at the time. But it drew howls of outrage.
"...they still have the same constitutional rights as everyone else"

To sell pipe bombs?

Right. Like I said that.

Or this:

Look at what lengths you'll go to defend these homegrown terrorists.
And from the same commenter:
And oh yeah...way to defend potential cop killers. They're terrorists and should be treated that way.
I defended them? All I said was that I hoped their constitutional rights were being respected. And left-wing ideologues saw that as an opportunity to start an argument. Arguments are of course a complete waste of time with ideologues, because they come there to attack, to score points, and above all to win, not to exchange ideas with a goal of mutual discovery of the truth.

Anyway, I would have forgotten all about my Hutaree post, except it's now looking as if the concerns I expressed about their constitutional rights hit pretty close to the mark. And that's what the judge thinks:

The United States is correct that it need not wait until people are killed before it arrests conspirators. But, the Defendants are also correct: their right to engage in hate-filled, venomous speech is a right that deserves First Amendment protection...

The Court reviewed all exhibits, testimony, and proffers, and finds that each Defendant produced sufficient evidence to rebut the presumption in favor of detention. The Government fails to persuade the Court, by a preponderance of the evidence, that there are no conditions that will reasonably assure the Defendants' appearance in Court as required. The Government also fails to persuade the Court by clear and convincing evidence, that there are no conditions that will reasonably assure the safety of the community, if Defendants are released.

From Archy Cary (after quoting the judge):
So, the nine members of group profiled by the Department of Justice and the MSM as representing an imminent right-wing extremist danger have been released on bond by a judge who surveyed the evidence and concluded that the government hadn't made the case that the Hutarees represented a clear and present danger to "the safety of the community." Instead, they appear to be most guilty of shooting off their mouths - a practice still protected, in most cases, by the First Amendment.

Here's the question the MSM needs to ask, but won't: Was this flamboyant raid primarily driven by political rather than law enforcement motives?

Via Glenn Reynolds.

I don't know what considerations drove this raid, but the government will have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they actually did something beyond shooting off rambling paranoid conspiracy theories, or spouting the sort of anti-police rhetoric which was considered trendy in the Black Panther Party's heyday.

So once again, they still have the same constitutional rights as everyone else, and I hope for the sake of the rest of us that they are being respected.

Glad I can still say that.

posted by Eric on 05.05.10 at 12:27 PM










Comments

Ah, yes. The crowd that seems to think that "f*** you!" and a collection of lame personal insults is the best possible rejoinder to something they disagree with. Never mind discussing the facts or - horror of horrors - doing a little research.

Do let me know if you see any more of that nonsense, Eric. I don't get much time, but I do so love a good shredding, and my inner bitch-queen has so few opportunities to sharpen her claws.

As for the comments you quoted... Hm... Let's see. Telling the world you're going to sell pipe bombs is First Amendment protected speech. Selling all the components for one isn't constitutionally protected that I know of, but it's not against any laws - as I recall most of the ingredients are pretty common. For that matter, if you marketed it for clearing vegetation, you could potentially sell the things (not that a pipe bomb would be a terribly effective way to clear vegetation, but it does a lot less damage to potential crops than poison, and works faster).

I don't recall the group having killed any cops or attempted any terrorist acts, either. Not like the actual cop-killer and terrorist who's on best buddy terms with a whole lot of the powers that be. I guess that's different.

Oh, and if you really want to leave the ideologues frothing, the method I've found most effective is patronizing them. Preferably with baby talk. They can't respond effectively to things like "Ooh, poor widdle diddums lost his favwit toy."

Kate   ·  May 5, 2010 12:56 PM

Ran across one oil-spill related post where a commentor was complaining mightily about the horribly large profits that BP was making. He seemed to be under the impression that BP was making 50% or more profit each year, while they should be making no more than 15% in his opinion.

I pointed him to the Finance.Yahoo.Com page for BP, and their horribly high profit for 2009 of 7.57% - and he vanished. Poof! Just like that...

Haven't seen him since.

The left, for all they label themselves as 'reality-based', just can't handle something that doesn't fit their 'reality'. It's really rather odd how they'll rant and rave about something, yet never bother to actually check whether what they're ranting and raving about is accurate or not.

JLawson   ·  May 5, 2010 1:58 PM

Well, people are people and they're going to misunderstand you no matter what you write, as you've shown.

It's annoying but it's a badge of honor.
If they're not calling you names then you're not being effective.

A lot of it, at least how I see it, is that people are tying their self-worth into their political leanings.
So when you ably argue that their positions are wrong, you get them upset because they see it as you attacking them.
So they attack you back.

Eh, don't let it get to you, because that's a huge part of what they want.
Think of the celebrations when Stephen Den Beste stopped writing his excellent essays.

Veeshir   ·  May 5, 2010 3:10 PM

Since the topic of this post veers from writing to commenting to the Constitutional rights of accused terrorists, I'll risk commenting on the latter.

I'm fairly sure that the Hutaree Nine (or whatever the count) are disgusting people, but they appear to be all talk, and talk (as noted) is protected in the US. Their most important attribute is that they are far-right and thus could safely be made an example-of in the face of Tea Party opposition, knowing that many people would be fooled into thinking that there is some sort of connection between the two movements.

I recall several pseudo-Islamic gangs in the US who "plotted" terrorism (one in Miami) who didn't actually get around to doing anything, and who were generally mocked by those on the left for their lack of follow-through. One wonders when the same spirit of genial scorn will be applied to the Hutaree clowns.

Pious Agnostic   ·  May 5, 2010 3:33 PM

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