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October 05, 2008
The Numbers Game
More than one person has asked me why the polls are so out of whack with what they see as their reality. So what is that reality? I think a few anecdotes are in order. First from commenter Daddy at Just One Minute. Arriving in Indy about midnight I asked the 2 female bus drivers how did the ballgame come out and they both replied they weren't listening to any ballgame they had been listening to the debate. Both were enthusiastic and pumped, and extremely complementary of Sarah's performance, especially since they had been led to believe she was going to do so poorly. The female Cab driver was very jazzed as well and said exactly the same thing. Ditto for the check-in lady in the hotel. Later at The Redeye Cafe in downtown Indy for a 2 AM Guiness and Spanish Omelette (Yumm!), the bartender girls were also oblivious of ESPN and SportsCenter on the overhead TV's behind, and both were still complementing Sarah on her performance. All these girls were Colts fans, and they were acting exactly like they do when their Colts win a playoff game. I have no idea what any of their politics were, but it seemed that Sarah's performance was somehow something they took personally, and they were proud of how she did. I never did get any opinions from any guys what they thought about the debate since apparantly women do all the work after midnight in Indianapolis, but my unscientific survey of the working girls of middle America is that Sarah made a very big and a very positive impression. Whether or not it'll turn into votes for her, who knows.Here is one from commenter Sharen at No Quarter. Comment by Sharen 2008-10-04 23:19:36And finally one from Porchlight at Just One Minute. Daddy,So why isn't all this showing up in the polls? There are reasons. Some good. Some not so good. And some there is no way to account for. So how about the good? Registrations for Democrats is way up. Rush Limbaugh with his Operation Chaos plan to derail Hillary got a bunch of Republicans to register as Democrats to defeat Hillary. So the pollsters believe the Republican party has lost support. How about the bad? The newspapers and most TV networks are so obviously in the tank for Obama this year that they aren't even making a pretense of a pretense of objectivity. So they get the polls with numbers they are happy to report and that helps their candidate by depressing the other side. And how about the no way to account problems with polls? People lie to pollsters. Unsourced anecdote: a nice sounding black lady calls and asks who you are voting for? Are some people going to be nice and say Obama when in reality it is going to be McCain? It happens. Now how about some analysis by people smarter even than me. Let me start with A.J. Strata's view on cooking the polls. Voter models are the essence of political polls. You take a sample of a few hundred or a few thousand people and predict how that sample can reflect 10s-100s of millions of people. If you are off by even a small fraction in your assumptions the bottom line could be off by 5, 10 or 20% (despite an MoE claim of a few points).Go to A.J.'s for the links. And A.J. has more so if you want details give him a read. Newsbusters looks at the fabrication side of polling. You know. They just make shit up. Again it is all about party weightings. In the kitchens of the Associated Press, it's almost as if the wire service asked its chief cook -- er, pollster -- GfK Roper Public Affairs and Media, to do the following:Read the article if you want to check out the links. Me I want to look at some numbers and we do in fact have a few.* Whip up a tasty, representative poll after the Republican Convention.Of course we don't know if the differences between AP-CfK's Sept. 5-10 and Sept. 27-30 results were created deliberately, but the results sure look suspicious (both polls are available at PDF links found at AP-GfK's home page). "Somehow," the sample make-up changed from 33-31 Democrat to 40-29 Democrat from the earlier to the latter poll -- a shift of nine points.Well Newsbusters has charts full of numbers and more text so for the numbers obsessed (hey there may be a key to winning the lottery in there) have a look. There is always more to learn. I'd like to finish up with analyst DJ Drummond of Stolen Thunder whose motto is: A man must be accountable, else everything he does counts for nothing. Yep. Any way DJ looks at the Secret Poll I have been working through the poll numbers for quite a while now, sorting out valid patterns from the fakes. I held off posting the true state of things for a long time, for a number of reasons, but I notice that some on the Right have begun to lose hope and make sounds of giving up. So I will tell you plainly, thatNow I have cribbed everything DJ posted. Which is kind of like stealing. In fact it is stealing. In my defense it wasn't a long post and DJ answers some interesting questions in the comments. So do the right thing and give him a click. Plus his advice is critical: keep the faith. Do not give up. Make sure you and all your friends show up on election day. I'm going to double down on the above comments. Here is what I say about all this. Again: Let us not give Obama the election by staying home depressed on election day. If he is going to win make him earn it. Get out and vote and make sure everyone you know gets out and votes. Make him know he was in a fight. In other words fight the trolls on the blogs. And come election day get out the vote like your life and your country depended on it. Because it does. Even in a state like Illinois where I reside, every vote counts because it adds to the popular vote totals even if your state is going for Obama in the electoral college. And if you want to do something about vote fraud read this, because polls aren't the only way the numbers are being cooked this year. Cross Posted at Power and Control posted by Simon on 10.05.08 at 07:56 PM
Comments
VOTE, yes my wife are putting our mail-in ballots in the mail tomorrow. We are in Colorado. Yes, we are voting for McCalin/Palin. LYNNDH · October 6, 2008 12:06 AM This is so strange to me this year. I cannot imagine anyone not seeing the fraud that Obama is. It's so clear to me. So clear, that I am constantly questioning my perception. On my street there are no political signs. None. I thought about putting up a McCain sign, but thought... no. I have black neighbors and I don't know where they are politically and I don't want to offend them. I don't even know where my white neighbors stand. (Some of them are pretty stupid in other ways... why should I assume they are as politically "intelligent" as I am?) Donna B. · October 6, 2008 03:08 AM Polls are useful tools for candidates. It was Polls that caused McSame to pull out of Michigan. Strange,but don gone it!, I agreed and still agree with the Pit Bull (you know the one with the lipstick on) who thought that was an unwise move. You and I stand together on the need to vote. If one does not vote, one has no right to complain about the end results. Ashley Hardwick · October 6, 2008 11:00 AM @LYNNDH: I don't know where they are politically and I don't want to offend them There's your problem right there: You have a gut feeling that NOT supporting The O is in some way racist. I have no say in this election, as I'm a Danish citizen, but here in Europe we have somewhat the same problem: Don't p*ss off the minorities, that would be uncourteous. But I'll wager you a six-pack that there are blacks who won't vote Obama even if their lives depended on it. Just look at this dude So don't be shy, voice out your support for M/P. Your vote will have a direct impact on my life, even if I'm 20.000 miles away in a country you probably never heard of! Mikael · October 6, 2008 11:56 AM LYNNDH: I don't know where they are politically and I don't want to offend them There's your problem right there: You have a gut feeling that NOT supporting The O is in some way racist. I have no say in this election, as I'm a Danish citizen, but here in Europe we have somewhat the same problem: Don't p*ss off the minorities, that would be uncourteous. But I'll wager you a six-pack that there are blacks who won't vote Obama even if their lives depended on it. Just look at this dude. (Who ever he is.) So don't be shy, voice out your support for M/P. Yourr vote will have a direct impact on my life, even if I'm 20.000 miles away in a country you probably never heard of! Mikael · October 6, 2008 12:09 PM go to justsaynodeal.com Democrats for McCain. They have some great stuff. also, just saw a video on Obama, and OMG.. It's the last video on the piece. Heidi · October 6, 2008 04:28 PM Mikael -- of course we've heard of Denmark. Some of us are also aware Shakespeare got it wrong. ;) And most libertarians and republicans and non leftists in general have heard of the Danish Cartoons. Also, I buy Danish blue cheese all the time. :) American geographical ignorance is greatly exaggerated. Trust me. And in my post above, I meant trawling blogs (as with a net, for hope) not trolling. I don't see any point going to blogs to annoy people. Well, not on purpose. And again, this post greatly helped, last night. Now I'm just consumed with the need to do SOMETHING. P. Portia · October 6, 2008 11:34 PM Well done! They say statistics can be made to say anything and this certainly proves the case. Now go out and find ONE professionally gathered INDEPENDANT poll that looks anything like your numbers. Good luck, oh yah don’t start blaming a wide reaching media conspiracy with Obama wins in a landslide. Nice poll numbers · October 6, 2008 11:50 PM |
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THANK YOU FOR THIS POST.
I've been trying to figure out what's wrong with me. I have two projects due in two weeks, and I can't concentrate, and I end up emailing everyone with whom I can discuss politics (um... five. I work in an artistic field. There are probably more of my acquaintances on our side, but we haven't flashed our gang colors yet, and it's too risky to speak up) five times a day, and I chat with my friends on AIM and trolling blogs, and...
All to distract from the fact that I feel like I'm drunk. Double vision.
Look, normally I'd say doubting polls was sort of like believing in the black helicopters. And everytime I say the numbers are wrong, the little inner voice goes "Poppycock. Wishful thinking." I don't like fooling myself and I keep reality-testing and trying to resolve the conflict one way or another.
Because this is what is happening -- I live in CO in a bluer than blue area. In 04 not only were there NO Bush signs almost every yard had Kerry signs. My car had its "support our troops" ribbon stolen twice and was keyed once.
This year. Still not many McCain signs. I figure the experience of 04 holds, right? There's a reason I don't have a sign in my yard. (I feed outdoor cats, for one, and I don't want someone getting cute with them, because then I would need to go find my gun and... uh, it wouldn't be pretty) HOWEVER there are as many McCain signs as Obama's. And if you move towards downtown, traditionally more dem, it's ALL McCain. Also, Obama is sending walkers door to door and the ones that came here looked like they were afraid I'd hit them. (As is they were lucky. I'd never hit them, but if I hadn't had a professional contact IN the house at the moment, I would have had more fun. [I want them to come back!] I told them I was busy, excuse me. Then they tried to get me to PROMISE to vote for Obama. Asked me if I promised to. And I wanted to have said "You believe that, if it gives you pleasure." Or "Present" Or "That question if above my paygrade." OR "Palin and McCain could eat babies on live TV and I'd still vote for them. They're NOT Obama. I've come a long way to avoid voting for marxists endorsed by a monolythic press.")
Why would they look like that in THEIR area?
I know in my circle of friends this year I count at least two who were staunch pro-dem before and now are Anyone But Obama and actually love Palin. I know the family in Ohio, also usually left, is saying "We don't trust Obama."
And meanwhile there's the relentless drumbeat of the polls. And of course, I know the media is biased. I know polls are cooked. But I feel like I'm indulging in fantasy.
It's driving me insane. Your post helped me move a little towards balance. So, thank you. Maybe now I can convince self to stop blog-reading and do some work. :)
P.
(Sorry for the very long post.)