Simon

As long as we're posting anecdotal fantasy and passing it off as evidence of the wisdom of economic policy, I'll submit my own (that I heard from a friend of a guy that posts on another website I heard about from my old roommate's podiatrist):

Well, the owner of the shoe repair shop my cousin manages came in this afternoon and informed the staff that because of the election and Obama's proposed middle class tax relief, he is hiring three more employees to handle the increased business that will result from the increased spending power of average Americans. He then gave the rest of the employees raises on the spot.

Now--please tell me how my little scenario is any less credible than yours.

That 'one girl' will find a lawyer.
In some way or another her rights have been violated.

Soon she will own the dry cleaners.

The dry cleaners association will also be named in the suit. Punitive damages 15 million.

This story is probably false anyway. I hope an owner wouldn't be foolish enough to give a reason for firing.

You don't have to state a reason. And anything you say will be crammed up your behind by the law.

The owner is a jerk if he fired them without at least waiting to see if taxes would be raised.

"without at least waiting to see if taxes would be raised."

Pelosi, Reid, and Obama have PROMISED that the Bush tax cuts will expire and not be renewed. This is a guaranteed tax increase for everyone in 2010.

"Now--please tell me how my little scenario is any less credible than yours."

Because we know you. :-)

More seriously, because we understand economics better than you.

More seriously, because we understand economics better than you

ROFL!

The current economic failure is the direct result of voodoo Reaganomics, as Greenspan's mea culpa proves, and you are making the claim that "you understand economics better"

Sure, just like Palin is an expert on Russia and foreign policy...

You guys have nothing to offer beyong politics of fear, and Obama's land slide victory proves it.

Meyrav

Pelosi, Reid, and Obama have PROMISED that the Bush tax cuts will expire and not be renewed. This is a guaranteed tax increase for everyone in 2010

You guys do take pride in being ignorant.

The median income in the past 8 years has declined, and is now hovering around $47k-$48k.

Every single objective analysis of Obama's tax policy shows people (about 95%) making under $250k will benefit under Obama's plan.

Meyrav

Apochryphal. Urban legend. I guarantee that this did not happen. But even if it did happen, the owner of the dry cleaner can fire his/her employees for any reason in 49 of the 50 states (or 56 of the 57 states for you Obama supporters).

(Glad to see the election hasn't dampened the enthusiasm of the Obammunist trolls who recently found this site. Of course, their paid gig of internet trolling has come to an end ...)

You don't have to broadcast that you're terminating employees based on their party affiliation. The idiots with the Obama stickers on their bumpers can be terminated at any point in time during the next several months. Any excuse can be manufactured. You don't think this happens? It does happen and it can't be stopped. God I do love being a business owner.

pst314

Since you understand economics better than I do, I'd appreciate your help: could you explain the fundamental economics that demonstrate Simon's fictional scenario to be more realistic than mine?

Easy, NB. It's good business to plan for bad times, not hopeful ones.

The median income in the past 8 years has declined, and is now hovering around $47k-$48k.

I'm sure letting the Bush tax cuts expire will help those people.

I'm also sure that increasing taxes on the top 5% of the population will lead to job increases.

How can I be so sure? Well Obama was a Professor at the University of Chicago and knows everything.

I mean all you have to do is see what the measly 10% luxury tax did to the yacht industry. It killed that industry in America and sent the jobs elsewhere in the world.

Ooops.

Well all those people making stuff for the rich shouldn't have jobs anyway. Because, you know, rich people are bad.

The owner is a jerk if he fired them without at least waiting to see if taxes would be raised.

In business it pays to plan ahead.

You don't suppose all those illegals are suppressing wages do you?

"You guys do take pride in being ignorant."

If the Bush tax cuts expire, the following will happen:

1. Tax rates will rise substantially in each tax bracket, some by 450 basis points;
2. Low-income taxpayers will see the 10-percent tax bracket disappear, and they will have to pay taxes at the 15-percent rate;
3. Married taxpayers will see the marriage penalty return;
4. Taxpayers with children will lose 50 percent of their child tax credits;
5. Taxes on dividends will increase beginning on January 1, 2009;
6. Taxes on capital gains will increase, also beginning on January 1, 2009; and
Federal death taxes will come back to life in 2011, after fading down to nothing in 2010.

"people (about 95%) making under $250k will benefit under Obama's plan."

Are you sure that's $250K? Obama also said it was $200K and Biden said it was going to be $150.

One thing is for certain...You will not be getting the new pony that Obama promised.

Even if apocryphal, something very much like it will happen tens of thousands of times across the country if Obama does what he says.

But that's a big if. As the original George Bush was supposed to have said, "I don't see any connection between what you say to get elected and what you do once elected."

Reality will dictate far more of Obama's actions than ideology or campaign promises. Remember the times he said one thing on the stump and then immediately sent out his adivsors to reassure world leaders, "ignore it, it's just campaigning."

People don't go to shoe repair shops when they have more money to spend. People go to shoe repair when they can't afford new shoes.

That's a fascinating quote from the elder George Bush. I have no idea if it's legitimate or not, but that's part of the reason why I think the insistence by members of the press that "issues-oriented campaigns" and discussions of "policy proposals" are supposed to be the most important thing in any campaign. Experience has convinced me that that is a bunch of hooey. Once someone gets elected, the issues change anyway, and few policy proposals make it through congress without significant changes. That's why character issues, questions of judgement and leading principles need to be discussed. That's also why even Obama voters are wondering which Obama is going to show up at the White House in January.

Likewise, I met with a client the day after the election. Very successful businessman in his early 60s. He said he is selling everything he has (real estate) and is not going to work any more (he could live comfortably on interest); he thought there was no point for him to keep working and taking risk when Obama is going to nail him with taxes; he is trying to sell everything quickly, even at lower prices, since he'd rather do that than give to the government more in increased capital gains. NOW, MULTIPLY THIS SCENARIO ACROSS THE COUNTRY 100,000 or more times. How do you think the economy is going to do?

Then there is this idea from a comment from Atlas Shrugs blog:

The first we can all do right away. I'm calling it BUY NOTHING. Don't let "Obama" get away with imposing his Communism as a
way of ending the recession. Don't let the uninformed voters who think this guy will save them have any chance of pulling
that off. Buy Nothing. Sure you need food, unless you're a farmer, and fuel, but you don't need a new car, home improvements, a new wardrobe, etc, etc, etc. Shut this thing down now. We are 50% of the nation. Without us the workers of the world are a bunch of
cold guys huddling around small bonfires in the street. It's easy and you can start today. I didn't buy a fawning newspaper
today, for the first time.

This suggests median income has not fallen.

http://www.larimer.org/compass/median_family_income_ec_ind_charts.htm