I'm not sure I'm live blogging (and I'm not sure this is a debate)

While this really can't be called live-blogging the debate (or the Town Hall meeting), I thought I'd weigh in with a few thoughts while watching it.

I have been watching Barack Obama mischaracterize the economic problem as being caused by deregulation, and I wish McCain would come back at him harder. Unfortunately, he's limited by the style

As Stephen Green (who's drunk blogging) put it:

6:37PM Before I get too looped for real analysis, let's talk about bondage. Sort of. McCain's in a box tonight. He has to attack, but the town hall format isn't very friendly to that sort of thing. That's a problem for him.
Yes, I can already see that it is.

He needs to come out swinging as he did last time, but he can't.

Ann Althouse thinks the "2 men seem mainly to be recycling their old talking points," and that seems right.

Like it or not, though, these debates are not really about issues. They just pretend to be about issues. But they're really performances, somewhat like boxing fights -- the idea being that the best debater wins.

Anyone who votes based on a debate might as well be voting on who can do more pushups.

9:35 Hey! Just as I said that, I heard McCain characterize trying to discern Obama's position as being like nailing jello to the wall!

Yay!

9:37 McCain's quip got Obama rattled, but the format wouldn't let him come back to the tax issue. Now he is, and I'm getting really sick of hearing him repeat his misleading claims.

I don't like CNN's little Ohio undecided meter which always goes way up for Obama and way down for McCain, so I switched to FOx, which has a split screen, and no meter.

9:55 Stephen Green also noticed that McCain seems to be getting to Obama.

They're haggling over health care, and I've heard it all before.

9:59 Obama stated that McCain thinks deregulation is the answer for everything!

Well, I'm already voting for McCain, thanks. But where's his proof of that?

10:01 McCain just slammed Obama as not understanding national security.

(I wish he'd say something about befriending those who wanted to murder American NCOs...)

Here's The Corner's Michael Graham:

I don't think pit bulls, with or without lipstick, can save this slow-moving chat show.
Hmmm...

I thought I'd check in with Coco, who's sitting in front of the television

Whether she can save things or not, I don't know, but here's how she looks:

CocoDebate1007.jpg

10:17 McCain just got in a real zinger about how his hero Theodore Roosevelt said "Speak softly and carry w abig stick," while Obama talks loudly.

This led to an angry retort by Obama about McCain singing "Bomb Bomb Iran!"

In a followup, McCain pointed out he was joking with a veteran, but he knows what to do and understands the issues, doesn't want to broadcast them. Says (quite credibly) that he will get bid Laden but won't talk about how.

McCain says Obama will not admit he's wrong about Iraq.

10:20 If you want fast fingers than mine, Glenn Reynolds has a list of live bloggers.

10:27 Iranian nukes. McCain says we can't allow it, and slams Obama again for advocating unconditional talks. Obama says we have to try talks anyway, but this time he doesn't mention Kissinger.

10:31 Obama concludes by talking about his modest background, his great education, praises the American dream, but says it's diminishing, so we need "fundamental change."

McCain concludes by talking about his lifetime of service to the country, what it's like to be down, and have others pick you up, which is the American way.

"Times are tough, we need a steady hand at the tiller."

MORE: Drudge reacts, with this link:

drudgeboredom.JPG

MORE: McCain is winning Glenn Reynolds poll by a huge margin.

Glenn also observed that Obama appeared to be "having fun," while "McCain looks like he's already bored with the whole thing." They both took turns looking annoyed, too.

Perhaps it was the format. Glenn had to rub in in with "Hey, McCain, you asked for ten of these!" But surely that was just campaign hyperbole.

Or is "campaign hyperbole" an oxymoron?

MORE: There's a lot of post-debate talk that McCain did better on the economy than expected, and Obama did better on defense and foreign policy than expected. If that's true, then McCain should have the overall advantage, as economic issues normally favor Democrats.

Overall, while the debate was boring (especially because of the format), I think McCain did especially well on the close, and I think he won on the economy and on foreign policy.

Obama's prattle about stopping Rwanda genocide was so typical of what irritates me about the man's glib, meaningless platitudes. From CNN's transcript:

If we could've stopped Rwanda, surely, if we had the ability, that would be something that we would have to strongly consider and act.
We could have, we had the ability and we did nothing. I wonder what he was saying at the time Clinton and the UN did nothing.

MORE: I realize that Rwanda is old history, but it just so happens that Susan Rice and Anthony Lake are both key Obama foreign policy advisors.

During the Clinton years, both were leading advocates of doing nothing in Rwanda.

posted by Eric on 10.07.08 at 09:19 PM





TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://classicalvalues.com/cgi-bin/pings.cgi/7447






Comments

Ugh, I feel like I'm just listening to their campaign ads on a continuous loop. Can we have Palin vs Biden again? Please?

Melissa   ·  October 7, 2008 09:59 PM

You missed noting that Obama blamed DELAWARE for bad banking practices in warning against opening borders to those shopping for health care. Poor Joe.

Dennis   ·  October 7, 2008 10:10 PM

re: the Palin thingy.

I found myself thinking, "if only McCain could promise to let the Lord take him in the first sixty days..."

I think we're in for a tough four years ahead. Those who know me know that I was hoping for a Guiliani presidential bid, precisely for the outcomes of the debates.

If you've never heard Guiliani debate, you've missed a thing of beauty.

I blame Florida for this. (Kinda ironic, innit? But, only for the Left.)

I have repeatedly offered my view that Republicans have to get over the dissent within our ranks over abortion. We are not, ever, going to re-criminalize abortion. This isn't an issue over the respect for human life, the origins of life, or even over a belief (such as mine) that abortion is morally wrong.

As my step-dad used to say, "you want to build sidewalks where people go." You've seen my less elegant expression of Edmund Burke. We, all Republicans, are to blame for this.

Unless you live in Florida.
.

OregonGuy   ·  October 7, 2008 10:26 PM

I vote for no more debates or townhalls. I, for one, will never watch another. Unless it includes Sarah Palin.

JKB   ·  October 7, 2008 11:15 PM

Obama is a nightmare. More government, more spending. He knows nothing about economics and nothing about foreign policy. But he is slick and knows how to sell. The fact is the electorate is largely ignorant about economics and foreign policy.

I laughed when Obama said $18 billion is not a lot of money.

McCain was more substantive overall. I just don't know if it was enough to move the needle.

The gloves need to come off. McCain has tons of ammo if he would just use it.

Barrett   ·  October 7, 2008 11:35 PM

Campaign hyperbole isn't an oxymoron, it's a redundancy.

Steve   ·  October 8, 2008 01:58 AM

I found myself thinking, "if only McCain could promise to let the Lord take him in the first sixty days..."

I think we're in for a tough four years ahead. Those who know me know that I was hoping for a Guiliani presidential bid, precisely for the outcomes of the debates.

If you've never heard Guiliani debate, you've missed a thing of beauty.

I blame Florida for this. (Kinda ironic, innit? But, only for the Left.)

列管冷凝器
大功率电子镇流器
恒温恒湿试验箱

电加热器   ·  October 8, 2008 02:03 AM

I particularly enjoyed the bravado of the O in claiming he would "kill Bin Laden."

I've heard this argument for years. It's ridiculous, as it assumes both no one has been trying up to now, and that a Democratic administration can guarantee that result. Not to mention the unacknowledged insult to the military personnel dedicated to just that mission.

Capturing that particular terrorist would be an excellent thing, of course. It would not, however, end the war of Islam against the West, nor give us the green light to get back to the more important issue of killing off individual liberty in America all by ourselves, so as to guarantee the governing classes the good life.

Brett   ·  October 8, 2008 08:10 AM

Well, I'm at least glad to hear O say a little something like the right thing about Rwanda. That hits very close to home for me, since my disillusionment with Democratic Party politics (and voters) began with the passivity on Rwanda and Bosnia, and the hypocrisy of so-called feminists defending Bill Clinton's indefensible behavior toward women. These days I look for whatever small comforts I can find.

Gene   ·  October 8, 2008 02:39 PM

Perhaps he meant we should impose a No-Fly Zone.

Cause, you know, he heard about one once, and it sounded like, you know, cool or safe, or something.

Dumb***.

Like a No-Fly Zone is going to do anything about the militias in the Sudan who mostly walk from village to village slaughtering people.


Also, did you notice that his answer to the question on whether we should defend Israel, if it is invaded ---- he voted Present. Long answer about Iran's nuclear program, not a word about defending Israel. Here's one issue where he couldn't even bring himself to lie glibly and say what he knows he should.

We've spent more than half a decade, billions of dollars, and lost thousands of soldiers to bring real progress to the Middle East. A President Obama is going to take us so far backwards, we'll long for the glory days of the Carter administration.

Clint   ·  October 8, 2008 03:49 PM


November 2008
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30            

ANCIENT (AND MODERN)
WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR


Search the Site


E-mail

escheie_[AT]_yahoo_DOT_com




Classics To Go

Classical Values PDA Link

What ancient form of execution would you LEAST prefer?
Buried alive
Crucifixion
Flayed alive
Scourged to death
Stung/bitten to death by insects
Slow disembowelment
Roasted on grill
Dragged from chariot
Torn apart by wild beasts
Rolled downhill inside spiked barrel
Death of a thousand cuts
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com


Archives




Recent Entries



Links



Alphecca (My Blogdaddy)



Puff the Protector


Andrew Sullivan

Gays in Military Site

Middle East Media Research Institute

Gay Libertarian Site
The Bitch Girls
Join the NRA!


SECOND AMENDMENT VIDEO!

Shooters' Carnival

Tammy Bruce
Gun Owners of America
goalogox.gif

front_cover.jpg
KerryCom.gif
fighting101sSm.jpg
David Hackworth
ElectricVenom.com
SgtStryker.com
Hell In A Handbasket
Matt Welch
The Volokh Conspiracy
Virginia Postrel
PseudoPsalms
The Light of Reason
The Anger of Compassion
Anger Management
Dustbury.com
Rachel Lucas
Shadow Government
reflections in d minor
JustOneMinute
Boone Country
Catallarchy
Roger L. Simon Button
Agenda Bender
Mike Silverman
Steven Malcolm Anderson
Walter in Denver
Impearls
Donald Sensing
Howard Owens
Loco Parentis
imao15.jpg
Colby Cosh
VodkaPundit
Radley Balko
Dean's World
The Queen of All Evil
baldilocks
Joe Gandelman
Dave Tepper
Begging to Differ
Kesher Talk
Jeff Jarvis
Doc Searls
Little Green Footballs
Captain Ed
Oh, That Liberal Media!
ICANNfocus.org
God of the Machine
Sandefur's Freespace
Wizbang
Robert Prather
LawPundit
adrcircle.jpgThe Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Amygdala
bilious young fogey
MadLab
On the Fritz
why dave bergman is neat
Skiplog
Clowning Glory
Dispatches from the Culture Wars
Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon?
Anti-Socialist Tendencies
Of Interest
WICKED THOUGHTS
Setting The World To Rights
doubleplusgood infotainment
It Can't Rain All The Time
Scrutineer
Nick Danger, International Man of Mystery
seldom sober
TRITICALE
Random Jottings
Graham Lester
point2point
Shark Blog
Gene Healy
Discount Blogger
Six Foot Pole
Dodgeblogium
Across the Atlantic
The Imperialist Dog
Lex Talionis
Mind Of Mog
Say Uncle
CAMPVS MAWRTIVS
res gestae dionysii
Annika's Journal & Poetry
A :{FRUSTRATED}: ARTIST
Yet another weird SF fan
Lincoln Cat
The Meatriarchy
Who is Ronald?
Short Daddy
Punch Drunk
Mookie Riffic
On The Third Hand
MatthewEdgar.net
ZenPundit
Jennifer's History and Stuff
blogcrit-button.gif
argghhh!!!
Modulator
D.C. Thornton
Centerfield
Asymmetrical Information
Airline Pilots Security Assn
Relapsed Catholic
PAPADOC
Abraca-Pocus
The Pryhills
Winds of Change
Daily Pundit
The Speculist
Regnum Crucis
The Elfin Ethicist
Classics in Contemporary Culture
elephant-rabbits
A Perfectly Cromulent Blog
allied
Parableman
Southern Musings
CALIFORNIA YANKEE
Allen's Arena
Ex-Gay Watch
Jonno
Michael Moore doesn't love me!
Eschaton
Clayton Cramer
Letters From a Strip of Dirt
Oliver Willis
Hesiod Theogeny
Dr Zen
JunkYardBlog
Orcinus
Ideofact
Letter from Gotham
Oraculations
INCITE
Positive Liberty
ALLAH IS IN THE HOUSE
Tiny Little Lies
My So-Called Penis
Keith Devens
Jason Holliston
W(h)ine Country
Straight White Guy
Ken MacLeod
Lawrence Lessig
solomonia.com/blog/
PaleoJudaica.com
EdCone.com
Common Sense and Wonder
Who knew?
Daily Howler
James Landrith
Chief Wiggles
L.T. Smash
damnum absque injuria
Daniel W. Drezner
OxBlog
Reason of Voice
Steven Den Beste
Wonkette!
Cranial Cavity
Gibberish in Neutral
DramaQueen
vivalabloog
Classics in Contemporary Culture
The LLama Butchers
flvbutton.gif
HobbsOnLine
ACIDMAN
Sector 7-G
Zogby Blog
mtpolitics.net
Horologium
Civic Dialogues
Practical Penumbra
Right Wing News
Stranger in a Strange Land
Ambient Irony
Tiger: Raggin' & Rantin'
Read My Lips
Jay Solo
The Alliance
The Smallest Minority
Wrong Side of Happiness
Wince and Nod
One Little Victory
Fishbucket
suburban blight
Sketches of Strain
Boi from Troy
Being American in T.O.
Outside the Beltway
One Fine Jay
Bill and Kent's Place on the Web
Burton Terrace
This Book Stinks
The Happy Carpenter
Political Correctness Watch
GREENIE WATCH
Resource.full
This Liberal"
Brainville
BLAMBLOG
Ordinary Galoot
QandO
Josh Cohen
Extra Ordinary Ideas
brykMantra
Croooow Blog
Old Right
commiewatch
Yourishweb.jpg
Proculian Meditations
UggaBugga
Dustin the No-Longer-Blogless
Les Jones Blog
Temporal Globe
Postcards from Nowhere
Tarazet
Unfogged
Synthstuff
Riba Rambles
Mitch Berg
The National Debate
scha-den-freu-de
Ocean Guy
Topic Exchange
CELESTIAL OFFERINGS
Texas Native
Somewhere over the Rainbough
Why read this?
End NPR Bias
Ace of Spades HQ
Web Dawn
GANGSTORIES
Sheila Astray's Redheaded Ramblings
Alan Sullivan (Seablogger)
hobbyblog
activistchat.com/blogiran/
FuturePundit.com
Tim Blair
A Voyage To Arcturus
HipperCritical
BarlowFriendz
Jihad Watch
Kin's Kouch
Bad Money
The Campblog
News Junkie Canada
De Doc's Doings
Bigwig
Eject!Eject!Eject!
Tom's Nap Room
A Coon Cat's World
The sexual adventures of Woodie and Peaches
Crystalline Ceramics Web Resource
Heh. Indeed.
NakedVillainy.com
Andrew David Chamberlain
The Karmic Inquisition
Adam Smith Institute Weblog
Andrea Harris
Hi. I'm Black
Banana Oil
Jim Miller on Politics
Who Tends the Fires
Ranck and File
MOLOTOV COCKTAIL FRANK
NOLI IRRITARE LEONES
Miss O'Hara
deadmaus
Coffee With Rhoads
robot guy
Travelling Shoes
Admiral Quixote's Roundtable
danm.us
The Argus
Dissecting Leftism
Dissecting Leftism -- OLD Site
Aaron's cc
Commentariat
The Argus - Registan
INDC Journal
Pundit Ex Machina
DeMythology
Peppermint Tea
Gilly's World
Beyond the Black Hole
La Shawn Barber"
FREE IRAN NEWS button
Perverse Access Memory
Invisible Adjunct
Photon Courier
Intel Dump
Junkscience.com
The SmarterCop
Laban Tall
Banagor
Peeve Farm
Rand Simberg
camedwards.com
Kim du Toit
Mrs. du Toit
Dancing with Dogs
Two--Four
Heretical Ideas
Astonished Head
Outlandish Josh
Central Oregon for Dean
ghostofaflea.com
The White Peril 白禍 (Sean Kinsell)
www.blktlr.com
Subterranean Bungalo
DFMoore
Dave Halliday
Well Versed
Qoheleth 60: Joel Moody's Repository
quo vado
jonrowe.blogspot.com
yellopad
Sticks of Fire
Dissecting Leftism
ByteMagick
Blogs of War
PRESTOPUNDIT
Of Interest
The Meatriarchy
Bernhardt Varenius
The Forager
Miller?s Time
Blogs of War
painting to stay (?) sane
Blue Goldfish | Surface
Clowning Glory
House of Payne International
Last Chance Caf馬t;/a>
Psychology of Leftism
a_sdf
CONSERVATISM/RIGHTISM
Taylor & Company
The Vicious Circle
Leftists as Elitists
Eye of the Storm
A scratch area
Wicked Thoughts
Filtrat
The Bayou City Perspective
The Belfry Blogger
Setting The World To Rights
Ljonn.com
Oddly Normal
Varifrank
Jamie Jamison on Technology
GayPatriot
A New York Escorts Confessions
jamescalvin.com
The Eleven Day Empire
Dr. Rusty Shackleford
Eric's Grumles Before The Grave
Belmont Club
Gumbo Pie
BeldarBlog
MooreThoughts
Blind Adherence
Last One Speaks
Logic Monkey
Bird's Eye View
DIRTY WATER
Forgadring
precision-guided cowboy
Punditmania
Minor Thoughts
Just Askin'
HispaLibertas
Let's Try Freedom
Megan McArdle
Ann Althouse
Beautiful Atrocities
Sean Hackbarth
Power and Control
Professor Bainbridge
Power Line
Dialogic
Darleen's Place
I'm N.O. Pundit!
Done With Mirrors
AMERICAN FUTURE
CodeBlueBlog
Gay Orbit
Urthshu
Zacht Ei
Interested-Participant
blake taylor
The Anchoress
Freespeech.com
Spiked
Decision '08 (Mark Coffey)
White Lightning Axiom: Redux
The Big Picture
Rachel Lucas BEI
John Cole
Haight Speech
evolution: on the loose
Moderates of all Nations, Unite!
Jeff Gannon
THE GLEESON BLOGLOMERATE
Pajama Pundits
Centerpiece
The Radical Centrist
Lab-Tested
FreedomSight
AmbivaBlog
evolution
Marx & Friends in their own words
Elective Application
Religion Research Islam Blog
YOUNGPUNDIT.COM
{finding peace in the chaos}
IQ & PC -- By Chris Brand
Classics in Contemporary Culture
Morse's Code
A&W
Bench Marx
Julie Neidlinger
Shades of Gray
The Daily Lion: NeoLibertarianism on a Stick
Miller's Time
Centerpiece
This Liberal
Coming Anarchy
Lay Lines
that'sRich
the blog eclectic
booklore
Yankee Madmen
Jesusland Expatriate
Amazing Motor Girls
Spiced Sass
Decline and Fall of Western Civilization
Modern Crusader
MaroonBlog
Skriblerier, etc.
I am partially fused with infinity
Eros Colored Glasses
Bill Peschel: The man comes around
The Twins Tell the Truth
wickens.ca
The War of Ideas
ConsterNations
EaglesUp Blog
Vitriolics Anonymous
DIRTY WATER
Mean Mr. Mustard 2.0
EDUCATION WATCH
THE RIGHT SCALE
AIS Knight Hammer
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE
The Argus
DON'T BE DUMB!
Blue Goldfish | Surface
GUN WATCH
De Docs Institute for Memetic Engineering And Polymaths...
Wordpress Test Weblog
Kapowie Zone
Political Theory: Weblogs
You know, they say...
all blogged down
Harkonnendog
Big Dirigible
GeoPoliticalreview.com
Coyote Blog
Blog Retrofuturistic
VietPundit
JasonColeman.com
Logical Meme
Bloggledygook
Discursive Recursions
Bird's Eye View
Right Wing Nut House
ELEMENOHPEE
Locusts and Honey
Moonbattery
The Everlasting Phelps
Mythusmage Opines
The Cassandra Page
Of Arms & the Law
The Daily Bork
Strange Stuff
Another Gay Republican
Libertarian Man of Mystery
Liberty Just In Case
TalkLeft
Joe's Dartblog
Iowa Hawk
The Common Room
Darth Vader
Gay Bipolar Republican
Boxing Alcibiades
Baby TrollBlog
Strange Fictions
Urban Hermit
The Eye of Polyphemus
Toe In The Water
Bryan's Basement
Fishkite
Right on the Left Coast
Beltway Buzz
pike speak
Scared Monkeys
The Mudville Gazette
Matt Sheffield
Undercaffeinated
Trey Jackson
NashvilleFiles.com
Moonbat Central
Dust my Broom
The Cliffs of Insanity
Riding Sun
The Modo Blog
Philly Future
philly
Off In The Tall Weeds
Doug Petch.Com
Gays for Life
the True Nature of Reality
Spinning Clio
Mike Huckabee President 2008
A.E.Brain
that rogueclassicist guy
A M㯠Invisí¶¥l
Constantly Risking Absurdity
Laurence Simon
Notes & Musings
A World of Speculation
Weird Events
Pit Bull Wars
New World Man
Mark in Mexico
The Palmetto Pundit
All Things Jen(nifer)
Generic Confusion
Justus for All
iHillary
Michael Totten
Don Surber
Maggie's Farm
Unpaid Punditry Corps
The Counter Hippie
Kicking On Doors
FunnyBusiness
Restless Mania
Mark Tapscott
nobody sasses a girl in glasses
Letters from the Bostonian Exile
The Education Wonks
Diana Hseih
just muttering
Right-Wing of the Gods
Michelle Malkin
Inside Larry's Head
Ballpoint Wren
A Blog For All
The Liberal Wrong
American Outlook
Splog Reporter
From the Grand Stand
Tinabell
Affordable Housing Institute
mudphud
Living In The Past
Searchlight Crusade
Gus Van Horn
Ian Schwartz
One Billion Red Chinese and a Dog Named Liberty
Suburban Bourgeois
The Metropolis Times
DR. HELEN
Philadelphia AIDS Thrift
Sir Humphrey's
Birth Story
The Simplest Thing
Blue Star Chronicles
One Stack Mind
Cathy Young
Neocon Express
A A R D V A R K
World Climate Report
Apartment 604
Yelling at the Windshield
Kimdergarten/
ShrinkWrapped
The Bear Cave
X marks the blogspot
CARRY ON AMERICA
Jim Rose
Kiril, The Mad Macedonian
Signal 94
Pseudo-Polymath
The International Libertarian
Gates of Vienna
California Sojourn
The Liberty Papers
Barcepundit
A. Jacksonian
Jon Swift
Tim Maguire
Three Sticks
Asymmetric
Dog Politics
OregonGuy
Little Miss Attila
Buuuuurrrrning Hot
AGENT BEDHEAD
Tygrrrr Express
David Harsanyi
Snowflakes in Hell
Earnest Iconoclast
Eternity Road
Musings of the GeekWithA.45
Total Survivalist Libertarian Rantfest
Argue With Everyone Political Forum
Nathan J. Winograd
Assistant Village Idiot
Parkway Rest Stop
Grouchy Old Cripple
Technicalities
Coalition of the Swilling
TigerHawk
Mary Madigan
Sad Old Goth
Erica Sherman
Joated

Ezra Levant
Kathy Shaidle
Free Dominion
Small Dead Animals
Habitation of Justice
GAYS DEFEND MARRIAGE
IEC Fusion Technology Blog
John Bambenek
Adventures in Existence
The Discerning Observer
Economists for McCain
The Truth Laid Bear
Socrates' Academy
jpfoUSA.gif
Armed and Dangerous

SupportDenmarkSmall2EN.png
holocausthp.jpg

Vin Suprynowicz


Tongue Tied
Link to Samizdata - please save the button to your own 

server

My Watergate Blog

rhino_sm.jpg



pj-button-04.gif

The Neolibertarian Network

BUMPERBANstupsm_1_.jpg



Syndicate this site (XML)







Blogroll Classical Values!

Search Popdex:


Pssst!

Wanna get on the Classical Values blogroll?

linkhead.gif Don?t bang your head!

Please send me an email and let me know, because although I try to keep up, sometimes I have trouble finding every last link.



Site Credits



classicalvalues.com

classicalvalues.com

(Link buttons)