Who is exhausted by Islam? The young in Iraq are exhausted by Islam.
BAGHDAD -- After almost five years of war, many young people in Iraq, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.
In two months of interviews with 40 young people in five Iraqi cities, a pattern of disenchantment emerged, in which young Iraqis, both poor and middle class, blamed clerics for the violence and the restrictions that have narrowed their lives.
"I hate Islam and all the clerics because they limit our freedom every day and their instruction became heavy over us," said Sara, a high school student in Basra. "Most of the girls in my high school hate that Islamic people control the authority because they don't deserve to be rulers."
Atheer, a 19-year-old from a poor, heavily Shiite neighborhood in southern Baghdad, said: "The religion men are liars. Young people don't believe them. Guys my age are not interested in religion anymore."
The shift in Iraq runs counter to trends of rising religious practice among young people across much of the Middle East, where religion has replaced nationalism as a unifying ideology.
As usual the New York Times misses the point. It is exposure to the unbending nature of the Islamic revival that is turning people away from Islam.
Islam brings murder and repression. The West offers Liberty and wealth. Which is more popular to the young and old? Which is better for business?
Samizdata is discussing the brittleness of Islam. The author of the post thinks that Islam can't stand up to rational examination.
I think one of the commenters had an even better idea. Ridicule. You believe What? And women should do What? And no popping down to the pub for a pint? And what is this about Mohamed marrying a nine year old girl? And authorizing brigandage? And Mohamed is to be emulated? What a larfer.
Iraq was an Arab Nationalist Socialist country that was suppressing conventional Islam at home,encouraging a form of emasculated Islam at home ( like the Soviet Orthodox Church under Stalin)and aiding the radical Islamacist terrorists abroad. That clear it for you Alphie?
cubanbob · April 10, 2008 10:31 PM
cubanbob,
Let me add in case Alphie has not been paying attention to the news.
1. Is Sadr secular?
2. Is Sistani secular?
Which points to the fact that although nominally secular it has a strong religious component. You know Alphie, like the Reich Wing in America. Like that fine upstanding church goer Obama. Only way more fundamentalist without the live and let live (we will annoy you) tendencies of America.
Alphie is our resident expert on surrendering Iraq to the fanatics and cutting lose the people who have trusted us to help them make their country a go.
He is not prejudiced in the least. He just has a very low opinion of Arabs and believes they are incapable of improvement.
Are you telling me every one who voted in an Iraqi election was bribed alphie?
But I know your type. You are one of those lefties who think self government is only for white people. Lucky you aren't a racist eh?
Gore said in 1988 that his experience in Vietnam:
"...didn't change my conclusions about the war being a terrible mistake, but it struck me that opponents to the war, including myself, really did not take into account the fact that there were an awful lot of South Vietnamese who desperately wanted to hang on to what they called freedom. Coming face to face with those sentiments expressed by people who did the laundry and ran the restaurants and worked in the fields was something I was naively unprepared for."
I guess it is something you are not prepared for either, eh alphie?
You know. I pity the Dems in this coming election I really do. It will be a blow out. Why? Because there are more Americans that believe self government is good for the world not just the white world than there are people like you alphie. The Democrats have become a party of craven small minded people. A party that would throw their grandma under the bus to win an election. Americans notice these things.
Iraq had a secular government, at least until 1990 when Saddam Hussein made a big show of religious fervor by adding "Allah Akbar". That does not mean that the Shia, and to a lesser extent, the Sunni were not just as devout, only that any extremeism was kept in check, unless it was condoned by Saddam's regime.
Iraq is not like WWII, or Vietnam, the closest parallel that I can think of is Yugoslavia before and after Tito. Another strong man who kept that lid on things, his death also allowed factions to strive for power. People who think that we can just leave Iraq should remember the Yugoslavian bloodshed of 1991-1995.
In the long run, I don't think this a sign of burgeoning apostasy amongst young Iraqi Muslims, but if it means a rejection of extremism, that's all to the good
SFC SKI · April 11, 2008 09:11 AM
Oh how cute! You guys feed your local troll.
You know that trolls only get stupider when fed, right?
iconoclast · April 11, 2008 10:44 AM
I am sure that alphie came here willing to engage in a discussion in which all participants are willing to change their positions if the evidence and reasons demand it. Alphie neither came here to parrot overused arguments nor to begin from the assumption that he is right and everyone else is wrong. Furthermore, it seems that alphie is both well-informed and a seasoned debater. Recognizing these self-evident truths, I am going to log off and spend my weekend developing a well-researched and logically presented argument to engage in rational discourse with alphie. This will surely be enlightening and rewarding. I look forward to returning to this thread on Monday and engaging in rational, thoughtful, and productive discourse with a mental giant who is surely worth my time.
On an unrelated note, the sarcasm key on my keyboard keeps sticking. Should I just throw out the keyboard and buy a new one?
The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Don?t bang your head!
Isn't the real point that Iraq was a secular country before we invaded it?