|
|
|
|
March 17, 2008
Lose a gun, go to jail!
In a sneaky amendment to a crime bill, Pennsylvania gun control forces are pushing hard for legislation that would criminalize the failure to report guns that are either lost or stolen. HARRISBURG - Handgun-control proponents in the State House are attempting to force a floor vote today on a controversial bill that would require handgun owners to tell authorities when their weapons are lost or stolen.I can certainly understand the District Attorneys Association's reluctance. While its proponents attempt to market it as common sense, this measure would do little more than criminalize law abiding gun owners who fail to report crimes committed against them. And it would criminalize the failure to report what is often unknowable -- a simple loss. This makes a potential criminal out of any gun owner, and it treats guns as inherently suspect property, which must be treated as different from other property. Ever heard the expression "Count the silverware"? If you're wealthy enough to have valuable silverware, it probably is a good idea to count it occasionally. Because guests can be dishonest. So can contractors, house painters, gardeners, cleaning people, etc. It would be unimaginable for anyone to propose making it a crime to fail to report stolen silverware, though. People who might count it would do so for their own selfish reasons, not because they fear criminal prosecution. But if it becomes illegal to not report something which is missing, at what point is it missing? At the moment it disappeared? Or when you discovered the loss? Suppose you don't believe in locking up your guns (any more than a lot of homeowners would lock up their silverware), and you have a number of guns conveniently located in different places in the house. If a crooked contractor stole one during a remodeling project, you might not notice it missing for some time. And even if you noticed it missing, how would you know whether it was stolen and not misplaced? At what point would you be legally obligated to notify the police? At what point would criminal liability attach, and why? These are not idle questions, for they touch on the constitutional due process requirement that a statute must put a reasonable person on notice as to what conduct is forbidden. Why single out guns unless the intent is to stigmatize them? I think that a law criminalizing non-reporting requires more than merely reporting a loss or a theft; by its nature it imposes an affirmative duty to monitor and count your guns on a regular basis or be a criminal (in much the same way that a law criminalizing the non-reporting of silverware would require counting the silver). But because it does not spell that out, I think it's unconstitutionally void for vagueness. In numerous discussions and in editorial pieces like this one by Monica Yant Kinney, it is claimed that the goal of the reporting law is to stop the criminal resale of guns, by making it an additional crime for criminal enablers of illegal resellers not to report their illegal transfers: "Lost-and-stolen is a no-brainer," said Joe Grace of CeasefirePA. "Ninety-six percent of Pennsylvanians support this."Wrong. Advocates like Ms. Kinney ignore the fact that law would violate the Fifth Amendment's protection against self-incrimination, and would have no effect on the criminals it is supposedly intended to target. Former prosecutor C.D. Michel analyzed this problem at length, and his analysis sheds more light on the reluctance of the Pennsylvania District Attorneys Association to back this legislation: Ironically, the ordinance cannot be used against the real bad guys. No law can compel lawbreakers to report themselves. So a straw purchaser who legally buys a gun cannot be compelled to report that he resold it illegally. And since it wasn't actually lost or stolen, he hasn't violated the ordinance. Similarly, if a felon prohibited from possessing a gun illegally possesses one anyway, and it is lost or stolen, he can be prosecuted for having the gun in the first place, but cannot be prosecuted for failing to incriminate himself by reporting the loss.As he points out, the law creates a major problem for true victims of gun theft, whom he very rightly advises to hire an attorney before making any report to the police: Perhaps worse, gun owners who truly are burglary victims must now hesitate to speak with police if their stolen gun is recovered at a crime scene. If the gun owner failed to report the loss at all, or on time, she faces possible criminal prosecution if she cooperates with police investigating the recovered gun. She should remain silent, get a lawyer and seek immunity first.Then there's the question of what to do if a gun is missing (or you think it's missing): Legal representation may also be appropriate when a gun is first discovered missing. The owner can be prosecuted if the theft is not reported within 48 hours of when the owner "should have known" the gun was missing. Proponents have made clear they believe "responsible" gun owners should know where their gun is at every single moment and "should know" a gun is gone immediately. And the fear of prosecution will encourage those who miss the 48-hour window not to report the loss at all.You'd need a lawyer even if you misplaced a gun in a disorganized house with lots of repair people running in and out. Basically, they're criminalizing victims of crime, criminalizing what would ordinarily be considered sloppiness, making ordinary gun owners inherently paranoid, ever more likely to become suspects, and in need of legal help for matters that used to be common sense. And of course, the illegal gun dealers, far from being the target class, are completely unaffected. Because of the vagueness I described, laws like this will lead to cries for more laws -- such as the type advocated by Barack Obama in 1999 which would have made felons out of gun owners whose guns were not "securely stored": In 1999, Obama proposed to make it a felony for the gun owner if a firearm stolen from his residence and used in a crime was not "securely stored" -- effectively negating the homeowner's right to self-defense.Via Dr. Helen, who called it "scary stuff." And she's right. A gun that is locked up in a gun safe is as likely to protect you as a dog that is locked up in a closet. I think these reporting laws are unconstitutional, and but another step on the road to criminalizing self defense. But if they pass, what are gun owners to do? In an interesting discussion of a similar New Jersey law (which also touched on civil liability for stolen guns) Armed and Safe offered some advice: If S. 2934 passes (which it seems bound to do), I think every handgun owner in New Jersey, on the day the law goes into effect, should report that all their handguns fell into the ocean (or were irretrievably lost in some other fashion). Let the petty tyrants chew on that.Ah, but what if the guns were later found? The gun owners could be arrested for making false reports! (Another damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't. But as I keep saying, more laws equal more crime.) posted by Eric on 03.17.08 at 12:38 PM
Comments
Sebastian thanks. They won't be able to use it against gun traffickers, though, because of the 5th Amendment. (The Supreme Court has already ruled that criminals cannot be charged with failure to register firearms they aren't allowed to possess.) By way of argument ad absurdum, you mentioned hats and sunglasses. Well, to the bureaucrats, no ridiculous idea is considered too ridiculous, and there is a movement afoot to prohibit hats and sunglasses in banks. http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2007/09/post_455.html Eric Scheie · March 17, 2008 04:51 PM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? Anonymous · March 21, 2008 01:37 AM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? ceoconnor · March 21, 2008 01:38 AM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? ceoconnor · March 21, 2008 01:38 AM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? ceoconnor · March 21, 2008 01:39 AM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? ceoconnor · March 21, 2008 01:39 AM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? ceoconnor · March 21, 2008 01:40 AM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? ceoconnor · March 21, 2008 01:40 AM What is the penalty in Penna,for someone who steals then resells a firearm? ceoconnor · March 21, 2008 01:41 AM Post a comment
You may use basic HTML for formatting.
|
|
March 2008
WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR
Search the Site
E-mail
Classics To Go
Archives
March 2008
February 2008 January 2008 December 2007 November 2007 October 2007 September 2007 August 2007 July 2007 June 2007 May 2007 April 2007 March 2007 February 2007 January 2007 December 2006 November 2006 October 2006 September 2006 August 2006 July 2006 June 2006 May 2006 April 2006 March 2006 February 2006 January 2006 December 2005 November 2005 October 2005 September 2005 August 2005 July 2005 June 2005 May 2005 April 2005 March 2005 February 2005 January 2005 December 2004 November 2004 October 2004 September 2004 August 2004 July 2004 June 2004 May 2004 April 2004 March 2004 February 2004 January 2004 December 2003 November 2003 October 2003 September 2003 August 2003 July 2003 June 2003 May 2003 May 2002 AB 1634 MBAPBSALLAMERICANGOP See more archives here Old (Blogspot) archives
Recent Entries
SOFT SWAT (for kinder, gentler, wrong-house drug raids!)
NAFTAGATE II -- Now it's her turn! "Now youse can't leave!"* The chickens that chickens produced? Liberation Theology End Women's Sufferage Is Rove Behind Obama? A Strategic Error From five years to many more! breaking the cycles of astroturfing
Links
Alphecca (My Blogdaddy) ![]() ![]() Puff the Protector Andrew Sullivan Gays in Military Site Middle East Media Research Institute Gay Libertarian Site The Bitch Girls Join the NRA! SECOND AMENDMENT VIDEO! Shooters' Carnival
Tammy Bruce Gun Owners of America
David Hackworth
Hell In A Handbasket Matt Welch The Volokh Conspiracy Virginia Postrel PseudoPsalms The Light of Reason The Anger of Compassion Anger Management Dustbury.com Rachel Lucas Shadow Government reflections in d minor JustOneMinute Boone Country Catallarchy Agenda Bender Mike Silverman Steven Malcolm Anderson Walter in Denver Impearls Donald Sensing Howard Owens Loco Parentis Colby Cosh VodkaPundit Radley Balko Dean's World The Queen of All Evil baldilocks Joe Gandelman Dave Tepper Begging to Differ Kesher Talk Jeff Jarvis Doc Searls Little Green Footballs Captain Ed Oh, That Liberal Media! ICANNfocus.org God of the Machine Sandefur's Freespace Wizbang Robert Prather LawPundit The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Amygdala bilious young fogey MadLab On the Fritz why dave bergman is neat Skiplog Clowning Glory Dispatches from the Culture Wars Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon? Anti-Socialist Tendencies Of Interest WICKED THOUGHTS Setting The World To Rights doubleplusgood infotainment It Can't Rain All The Time Scrutineer Nick Danger, International Man of Mystery seldom sober TRITICALE Random Jottings Graham Lester point2point Shark Blog Gene Healy Discount Blogger Six Foot Pole Dodgeblogium Across the Atlantic The Imperialist Dog Lex Talionis Mind Of Mog Say Uncle CAMPVS MAWRTIVS res gestae dionysii Annika's Journal & Poetry A :{FRUSTRATED}: ARTIST Yet another weird SF fan Lincoln Cat The Meatriarchy Who is Ronald? Short Daddy Punch Drunk Mookie Riffic On The Third Hand MatthewEdgar.net ZenPundit Jennifer's History and Stuff argghhh!!! Modulator D.C. Thornton Centerfield Asymmetrical Information Airline Pilots Security Assn Relapsed Catholic PAPADOC Abraca-Pocus The Pryhills Winds of Change Daily Pundit The Speculist Regnum Crucis The Elfin Ethicist Classics in Contemporary Culture elephant-rabbits A Perfectly Cromulent Blog allied Parableman Southern Musings CALIFORNIA YANKEE Allen's Arena Ex-Gay Watch Jonno Michael Moore doesn't love me! Eschaton Clayton Cramer Letters From a Strip of Dirt Oliver Willis Hesiod Theogeny Dr Zen JunkYardBlog Orcinus Ideofact Letter from Gotham Oraculations INCITE Positive Liberty ALLAH IS IN THE HOUSE Tiny Little Lies My So-Called Penis Keith Devens Jason Holliston W(h)ine Country Straight White Guy Ken MacLeod Lawrence Lessig PaleoJudaica.com EdCone.com Common Sense and Wonder Who knew? Daily Howler James Landrith Chief Wiggles L.T. Smash damnum absque injuria Daniel W. Drezner OxBlog Reason of Voice Steven Den Beste Wonkette! Cranial Cavity Gibberish in Neutral DramaQueen vivalabloog Classics in Contemporary Culture The LLama Butchers HobbsOnLine ACIDMAN Sector 7-G Zogby Blog mtpolitics.net Horologium Civic Dialogues Practical Penumbra Right Wing News Stranger in a Strange Land Ambient Irony Tiger: Raggin' & Rantin' Read My Lips Jay Solo The Alliance The Smallest Minority Wrong Side of Happiness Wince and Nod One Little Victory Fishbucket suburban blight Sketches of Strain Boi from Troy Being American in T.O. Outside the Beltway One Fine Jay Bill and Kent's Place on the Web Burton Terrace This Book Stinks The Happy Carpenter Political Correctness Watch GREENIE WATCH Resource.full This Liberal" Brainville BLAMBLOG Ordinary Galoot QandO Josh Cohen Extra Ordinary Ideas brykMantra Croooow Blog Old Right commiewatch Proculian Meditations UggaBugga Dustin the No-Longer-Blogless Les Jones Blog Temporal Globe Postcards from Nowhere Tarazet Unfogged Synthstuff Riba Rambles Mitch Berg The National Debate scha-den-freu-de Ocean Guy Topic Exchange CELESTIAL OFFERINGS Texas Native Somewhere over the Rainbough Why read this? End NPR Bias Ace of Spades HQ Web Dawn GANGSTORIES Sheila Astray's Redheaded Ramblings Alan Sullivan (Seablogger) hobbyblog FuturePundit.com Tim Blair A Voyage To Arcturus HipperCritical BarlowFriendz Jihad Watch Kin's Kouch Bad Money The Campblog News Junkie Canada De Doc's Doings Bigwig Eject!Eject!Eject! Tom's Nap Room A Coon Cat's World The sexual adventures of Woodie and Peaches Crystalline Ceramics Web Resource Heh. Indeed. NakedVillainy.com Andrew David Chamberlain The Karmic Inquisition Adam Smith Institute Weblog Andrea Harris Hi. I'm Black Banana Oil Jim Miller on Politics Who Tends the Fires Ranck and File MOLOTOV COCKTAIL FRANK NOLI IRRITARE LEONES Miss O'Hara deadmaus Coffee With Rhoads robot guy Travelling Shoes Admiral Quixote's Roundtable danm.us The Argus Dissecting Leftism Dissecting Leftism -- OLD Site Aaron's cc Commentariat The Argus - Registan INDC Journal Pundit Ex Machina DeMythology Peppermint Tea Gilly's World Beyond the Black Hole La Shawn Barber" Perverse Access Memory Invisible Adjunct Photon Courier Intel Dump Junkscience.com The SmarterCop Laban Tall Banagor Peeve Farm Rand Simberg camedwards.com Kim du Toit Mrs. du Toit Dancing with Dogs Two--Four Heretical Ideas Astonished Head Outlandish Josh Central Oregon for Dean The White Peril 白禍 (Sean Kinsell) www.blktlr.com Subterranean Bungalo DFMoore Dave Halliday Well Versed Qoheleth 60: Joel Moody's Repository quo vado jonrowe.blogspot.com yellopad Sticks of Fire Dissecting Leftism ByteMagick Blogs of War PRESTOPUNDIT Of Interest The Meatriarchy Bernhardt Varenius The Forager Miller?s Time Blogs of War painting to stay (?) sane Blue Goldfish | Surface Clowning Glory House of Payne International Last Chance Caf馬t;/a> Psychology of Leftism a_sdf CONSERVATISM/RIGHTISM Taylor & Company The Vicious Circle Leftists as Elitists Eye of the Storm A scratch area Wicked Thoughts Filtrat The Bayou City Perspective The Belfry Blogger Setting The World To Rights Ljonn.com Oddly Normal Varifrank Jamie Jamison on Technology GayPatriot A New York Escorts Confessions jamescalvin.com The Eleven Day Empire Dr. Rusty Shackleford Eric's Grumles Before The Grave Belmont Club Gumbo Pie BeldarBlog MooreThoughts Blind Adherence Last One Speaks Logic Monkey Bird's Eye View DIRTY WATER Forgadring precision-guided cowboy Punditmania Minor Thoughts Just Askin' HispaLibertas Let's Try Freedom Megan McArdle Ann Althouse Beautiful Atrocities Sean Hackbarth Power and Control Professor Bainbridge Power Line Dialogic Darleen's Place I'm N.O. Pundit! Done With Mirrors AMERICAN FUTURE CodeBlueBlog Gay Orbit Urthshu Zacht Ei Interested-Participant blake taylor The Anchoress Freespeech.com Spiked Decision '08 (Mark Coffey) White Lightning Axiom: Redux The Big Picture Rachel Lucas BEI John Cole Haight Speech evolution: on the loose Moderates of all Nations, Unite! Jeff Gannon THE GLEESON BLOGLOMERATE Pajama Pundits Centerpiece The Radical Centrist Lab-Tested FreedomSight AmbivaBlog evolution Marx & Friends in their own words Elective Application Religion Research Islam Blog YOUNGPUNDIT.COM {finding peace in the chaos} IQ & PC -- By Chris Brand Classics in Contemporary Culture Morse's Code A&W Bench Marx Julie Neidlinger Shades of Gray The Daily Lion: NeoLibertarianism on a Stick Miller's Time Centerpiece This Liberal Coming Anarchy Lay Lines that'sRich the blog eclectic booklore Yankee Madmen Jesusland Expatriate Amazing Motor Girls Spiced Sass Decline and Fall of Western Civilization Modern Crusader MaroonBlog Skriblerier, etc. I am partially fused with infinity Eros Colored Glasses Bill Peschel: The man comes around The Twins Tell the Truth wickens.ca The War of Ideas ConsterNations EaglesUp Blog Vitriolics Anonymous DIRTY WATER Mean Mr. Mustard 2.0 EDUCATION WATCH THE RIGHT SCALE AIS Knight Hammer SOCIALIZED MEDICINE The Argus DON'T BE DUMB! Blue Goldfish | Surface GUN WATCH De Docs Institute for Memetic Engineering And Polymaths... Wordpress Test Weblog Kapowie Zone Political Theory: Weblogs You know, they say... all blogged down Harkonnendog Big Dirigible GeoPoliticalreview.com Coyote Blog Blog Retrofuturistic VietPundit JasonColeman.com Logical Meme Bloggledygook Discursive Recursions Bird's Eye View Right Wing Nut House ELEMENOHPEE Locusts and Honey Moonbattery The Everlasting Phelps Mythusmage Opines The Cassandra Page Of Arms & the Law The Daily Bork Strange Stuff Another Gay Republican Libertarian Man of Mystery Liberty Just In Case TalkLeft Joe's Dartblog Iowa Hawk The Common Room Darth Vader John C. A. Bambenek Gay Bipolar Republican Boxing Alcibiades Baby TrollBlog Strange Fictions Urban Hermit The Eye of Polyphemus Toe In The Water Bryan's Basement Fishkite Right on the Left Coast Beltway Buzz pike speak Scared Monkeys The Mudville Gazette Matt Sheffield Undercaffeinated Trey Jackson NashvilleFiles.com Moonbat Central Dust my Broom The Cliffs of Insanity Riding Sun The Modo Blog Philly Future philly Off In The Tall Weeds Doug Petch.Com Gays for Life the True Nature of Reality Spinning Clio Mike Huckabee President 2008 A.E.Brain that rogueclassicist guy A M㯠Invisí¶¥l Constantly Risking Absurdity Laurence Simon Notes & Musings A World of Speculation Weird Events Pit Bull Wars New World Man Mark in Mexico The Palmetto Pundit All Things Jen(nifer) Generic Confusion Justus for All iHillary Michael Totten Don Surber Maggie's Farm Unpaid Punditry Corps The Counter Hippie Kicking On Doors FunnyBusiness Restless Mania Mark Tapscott nobody sasses a girl in glasses Letters from the Bostonian Exile The Education Wonks Diana Hseih just muttering Right-Wing of the Gods Michelle Malkin Inside Larry's Head Ballpoint Wren A Blog For All The Liberal Wrong American Outlook Splog Reporter From the Grand Stand Tinabell Affordable Housing Institute mudphud Living In The Past Searchlight Crusade Gus Van Horn Ian Schwartz One Billion Red Chinese and a Dog Named Liberty Suburban Bourgeois The Metropolis Times DR. HELEN Philadelphia AIDS Thrift Sir Humphrey's Birth Story The Simplest Thing Blue Star Chronicles One Stack Mind Cathy Young Neocon Express A A R D V A R K World Climate Report Apartment 604 Yelling at the Windshield Kimdergarten/ ShrinkWrapped The Bear Cave X marks the blogspot CARRY ON AMERICA Jim Rose Kiril, The Mad Macedonian Signal 94 Pseudo-Polymath The International Libertarian Gates of Vienna California Sojourn The Liberty Papers Barcepundit A. Jacksonian Jon Swift Tim Maguire Three Sticks Asymmetric Dog Politics OregonGuy Little Miss Attila Buuuuurrrrning Hot AGENT BEDHEAD THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS David Harsanyi Snowflakes in Hell Earnest Iconoclast Eternity Road Musings of the GeekWithA.45 Total Survivalist Libertarian Rantfest Argue With Everyone Political Forum Nathan J. Winograd Assistant Village Idiot Parkway Rest Stop Grouchy Old Cripple Technicalities Coalition of the Swilling TigerHawk Mary Madigan Sad Old Goth Erica Sherman Joated Ezra Levant
![]() Blogroll Classical Values! Pssst! Wanna get on the Classical Values blogroll? Please send me an email and let me know, because although I try to keep up, sometimes I have trouble finding every last link.
Site Credits
|
|
Very good post. A lot of gun owners aren't really processing how bad this law is. They think "Well, I would report a stolen gun to the police, so what's the big deal?" No one ever thinks it'll be them getting slapped by the long arm of the law.
From another point of view, one of the reasons they ostensibly want this bill is because it'll be a tool to use against gun traffickers who they can't prove are guilty of straw purchasing.
Is there any other area of criminal justice where we think it's acceptable, if the state has a hard time proving the elements of a crime, that we criminalize another related activity that has a much lower burden of proof?
It's often hard to catch shoplifters, so do we make it a crime to fail to remove hats and sunglasses when entering a store?