Sauce for the goose?

At Pajamas Media, Amy Alkon looks at "When Involuntary Fathers Are Forced to Foot The Bill":

Jennifer Spenner for the Saginaw News and Kathy Barks Hoffman for the AP wrote about a Michigan man who recently challenged being forced to pay child support for his girlfriend's baby -- despite what he alleges were her assurances that she couldn't get pregnant because of a medical condition, and her knowledge that he didn't want a child.

He made the point to the court that if a woman can choose whether to abort, adopt out, or raise the child, a man should have the same right, and argued that Michigan's paternity law violates the Constitution's equal protection clause.

The guy lost, of course. Because only women have the right to opt out.

And unlike men, women have three opportunities to opt out. The first opportunity -- to not have sex or to take precautions against pregnancy -- is of course shared by both sexes. But women (like it or not) have a second opportunity in the form of legal abortion, and men have no say in the matter.

The third opportunity to opt out of parenthood is by putting the baby up for adoption. Again, only women have this right.

The bottom line is that once pregnancy has occurred, men simply cannot opt out.

Noting a horror story about a man forced to pay child support for a baby conceived when he was molested at 14, and the irony of a society that considers it "reprehensible" for a man to father a baby out of wedlock but no big deal for a woman, Alkon concludes with advice for men:

For all you boys out there, until that day there is actual male choice, don't neglect the birth control...no matter what she tells you. Unless you're a sterling judge of character, on the level of secret service agents and clinical psychologists, and unless you're absolutely sure you've got an ethical and/or infertile girlfriend, or you personally watch her get Depo Provera injections...prudent thinking is never believing her when she says she can't get knocked up, always bringing your own condom, and retaining custody over it at all times...lest it find its way to the business end of a pin.

Sound cynical? That's what a lot of guys think -- before they write to me about what they can say to persuade some girl to get an abortion, or whether there's anything they can do to get out of paying child support...short of dying.

Cynicism doesn't even begin to fathom the craziness of the double standard involved.

I've written about this before, and I asked whether there's any moral distinction between a man selected at a bar and a sperm donor selected from a clinic's catalog:

...Putting the legalities aside for the moment, I don't see a whole lot of moral difference between a woman who decides to get pregnant by visiting a fertility clinic and a woman who selects an attractive stud at a bar for the sole purpose of getting pregnant, assuming she never wants to have anything else to do with the man. Society -- and lawyers -- have declared that the man selected at the bar is obligated, whereas the man selected in the catalog is not. Suppose the woman thought sex was "icky" and told the guy from the bar to just deposit his sperm in the measuring cup, and that she would take care of the rest with a kitchen turkey baster. The obligation is the same, because there's no army of clinicians with the right paperwork insulating him from the identical consequences of his actions.

His actions, right? Or are we talking about the woman's actions? This is why the term "serial sperm donor" so intrigues me. It's as if there are two systems of sperm donation -- one for the rich (or the politically and medically sophisticated), and another for the rest.

I also explored the feminist contention that no woman should ever have to become a mother "against her will." There's of course no such concept as becoming a father "against his will." The rule is that only the will of women matter.

I'm feeling cynical enough to relate a true story involving the flip side of Amy Alkon's example. A friend had a vasectomy after having kids and an unpleasant divorce. He began dating a woman he really liked, told me it was going well, and that he was going to tell her about the little "operation" he'd had on the next date. Of course, he was "sure" that would be OK, because after all, she had told him that she was "not interested in having children!" However, no sooner did he tell her than she ended the relationship. The disclosure of the vasectomy was their last date, and she dropped him like a rock. It was as if saying she didn't want children was part of a dishonest script, but hearing about the vasectomy introduced reality. These things come down to instinct, and words are just words.

I knew this guy, and trust me, had the situation been reversed -- had she told him that she'd had a tubal ligation -- he'd have been tickled pink.

Considering that women hold the cards and the deck is stacked against men, I suppose the most cynical thing an eligible but hedonistic and irresponsible man could do would be to have a vasectomy and then deliberately withhold that from the women he's dating. That way, he could have sex to his heart's content without a care in the world.

Ah, but that would be sexual misrepresentation, wouldn't it?

Or would it? Let's spice up the hypothetical. Suppose the man lied, and stated after direct questioning that he had never had a vasectomy. If the woman had sex with him hoping to get pregnant, would his lie constitute "romantic deception"? Does it rise to the level of the guy who claimed to be an astronaut and tricked women into bed?

Do women actually care sexually whether a man has had a vasectomy? Is this a relevant consideration in determining whether to have sex out of wedlock? Why? If anything, I'd expect that a "responsible" woman who wanted to play around would consider it a plus. Or would they? Simple logic dictates that women who do care whether a man has had a vasectomy are interested in something other than recreational sex.

Let's look at it the other way around. Suppose a woman was not able to have children, and she lied to the man. If his goal was having recreational sex, her inability to conceive would likely be seen as a plus, not a minus, and whether she lied would be only be relevant to whether she's an honest person.

Nondisclosure or lying about sterility would of course be grounds for annulment of a marriage, but I'm wondering how the two sexes would see it the context of a casual affair. I think they'd see it in very different -- even diametrically opposing -- ways. Might "casual sex" be not nearly as casual for women as it is for men?

The answers are to be found more in instinct than in logic.

MORE: The vast differences in commitment levels between the two sexes can be illustrated by contrasting the gay man and lesbian "second date" jokes:

There's a lesbian joke that goes like this:

Q: What does a lesbian bring on her second date?

A: A U-Haul.

If it is confirmed, this tendency might explain why so much of the push for same sex marriage comes from lesbians.

[...]

Q. What did the gay man bring on his second date?

A. What second date?

MORE: My thanks to Mrs. du Toit for the link! She also has some good advice for everyone:

We HAVE a mechanism whereby a woman can be assured that her children will be supported by their father. It is called marriage. Without it, you got nada in the way of guarantees.... which, by the way, is FINE if a woman doesn't want those guarantees, but she doesn't get to play BOTH sides of the fence. You either get married with all the requirements of that arrangement, and with that you have financial security for yourself and your children, or you go it alone.

It's not rocket science.

posted by Eric on 11.14.07 at 09:35 AM





TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://classicalvalues.com/cgi-bin/pings.cgi/5782






Comments

Okay, men typically do get the shaft in marriage and family law, but... I'm just having a little trouble believing that a 14 year-old boy would be 'forced' into sex with a 21 year-old woman. I mean, really? That my 14 year-old self would have been so lucky to not only have sex, but have sex with someone who could buy beer.

In any event, the courts tend to act in the interests of the child first. That the child is always getting the short-end of these situations makes me sympathetic to that thinking. That someone sits in the court room telling me that they never, ever, ever thought intercourse might result in pregnancy. Ever. Well, that's not a very convincing argument compared to the well-being of a truly innocent party.

Besides... Guy got off easy. Montly payments? Pishaw! With that kind of judgment, it's amazing he didn't come away with an infestation of Nigerian Burrowing Saber-toothed Crotch Crickets.

Jared G.   ·  November 14, 2007 12:41 PM

Life is not fair.

I taught my sons the concept of Tab A and Slot B a long time ago. If it fits you can't acquit.

If you have a naive view of the world, the mounting of your milk cow by your prize bull may be viewed as a sort of "rain dance ritual" that miraculously results in freshening. In that view of the world, a man's chances of opting out of parenthood may ethically increase. I'm doubtful, but I'm rooting for you.

In the face of clear knowledge of the sexual mechanics of reproduction, it is useful to be reminded that, as in electronics, air is a wonderful insulator. Given my current state of understanding of men and women, any time you insert Tab A into any Slot, there is a necessary presumption of Outcome B, regardless of the presumed risk associated with insertion. While you may assume a risk of Zero...remember, the outcome will be either Zero or One. There ain't a half.

Your case reinforces that simple fact.

Life is not fair.

OregonGuy   ·  November 14, 2007 12:43 PM

It's really pretty straightforward: if you're not ready and willing to support a child, don't have sex. This applies to both parties.

Tony Zbaraschuk   ·  November 14, 2007 01:52 PM

I'm somewhat empathetic to Alkon's argument, but as others have already said, men need to go into these situations with eyes wide open. "She told me she couldn't get pregnant" is a pretty flimsy defense.

The situations I'm outraged about, and there are many I've read of, are those in which men who've been paying child support who subsequently learn that they are NOT the father of the child are forced by the courts to continue support payments because...well, no better reason than it is in the "best interest of the child." Those situations are appalling.

the wolf   ·  November 14, 2007 05:06 PM

Post a comment

You may use basic HTML for formatting.





Remember Me?

(you may use HTML tags for style)



December 2007
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31          

ANCIENT (AND MODERN)
WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR


Search the Site


E-mail

escheie_[AT]_yahoo_DOT_com




Classics To Go

Classical Values PDA Link

What ancient form of execution would you LEAST prefer?
Buried alive
Crucifixion
Flayed alive
Scourged to death
Stung/bitten to death by insects
Slow disembowelment
Roasted on grill
Dragged from chariot
Torn apart by wild beasts
Rolled downhill inside spiked barrel
Death of a thousand cuts
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com


Archives




Recent Entries



Links



Alphecca (My Blogdaddy)



Puff the Protector


Andrew Sullivan

Gays in Military Site

Middle East Media Research Institute

Gay Libertarian Site
The Bitch Girls
Join the NRA!


SECOND AMENDMENT VIDEO!

Shooters' Carnival

Tammy Bruce
Gun Owners of America
goalogox.gif

front_cover.jpg
KerryCom.gif
fighting101sSm.jpg
David Hackworth
ElectricVenom.com
SgtStryker.com
Hell In A Handbasket
Matt Welch
The Volokh Conspiracy
Virginia Postrel
PseudoPsalms
The Light of Reason
The Anger of Compassion
Anger Management
Dustbury.com
Rachel Lucas
Shadow Government
reflections in d minor
JustOneMinute
Boone Country
Catallarchy
Roger L. Simon Button
Agenda Bender
Mike Silverman
Steven Malcolm Anderson
Walter in Denver
Impearls
Donald Sensing
Howard Owens
Loco Parentis
imao15.jpg
Colby Cosh
VodkaPundit
Radley Balko
Dean's World
The Queen of All Evil
baldilocks
Joe Gandelman
Dave Tepper
Begging to Differ
Kesher Talk
Jeff Jarvis
Doc Searls
Little Green Footballs
Captain Ed
Oh, That Liberal Media!
ICANNfocus.org
God of the Machine
Sandefur's Freespace
Wizbang
Robert Prather
LawPundit
adrcircle.jpgThe Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Amygdala
bilious young fogey
MadLab
On the Fritz
why dave bergman is neat
Skiplog
Clowning Glory
Dispatches from the Culture Wars
Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon?
Anti-Socialist Tendencies
Of Interest
WICKED THOUGHTS
Setting The World To Rights
doubleplusgood infotainment
It Can't Rain All The Time
Scrutineer
Nick Danger, International Man of Mystery
seldom sober
TRITICALE
Random Jottings
Graham Lester
point2point
Shark Blog
Gene Healy
Discount Blogger
Six Foot Pole
Dodgeblogium
Across the Atlantic
The Imperialist Dog
Lex Talionis
Mind Of Mog
Say Uncle
CAMPVS MAWRTIVS
res gestae dionysii
Annika's Journal & Poetry
A :{FRUSTRATED}: ARTIST
Yet another weird SF fan
Lincoln Cat
The Meatriarchy
Who is Ronald?
Short Daddy
Punch Drunk
Mookie Riffic
On The Third Hand
MatthewEdgar.net
ZenPundit
Jennifer's History and Stuff
blogcrit-button.gif
argghhh!!!
Modulator
D.C. Thornton
Centerfield
Asymmetrical Information
Airline Pilots Security Assn
Relapsed Catholic
PAPADOC
Abraca-Pocus
The Pryhills
Winds of Change
Daily Pundit
The Speculist
Regnum Crucis
The Elfin Ethicist
Classics in Contemporary Culture
elephant-rabbits
A Perfectly Cromulent Blog
allied
Parableman
Southern Musings
CALIFORNIA YANKEE
Allen's Arena
Ex-Gay Watch
Jonno
Michael Moore doesn't love me!
Eschaton
Clayton Cramer
Letters From a Strip of Dirt
Oliver Willis
Hesiod Theogeny
Dr Zen
JunkYardBlog
Orcinus
Ideofact
Letter from Gotham
Oraculations
INCITE
Positive Liberty
ALLAH IS IN THE HOUSE
Tiny Little Lies
My So-Called Penis
Keith Devens
Jason Holliston
W(h)ine Country
Straight White Guy
Ken MacLeod
Lawrence Lessig
solomonia.com/blog/
PaleoJudaica.com
EdCone.com
Common Sense and Wonder
Who knew?
Daily Howler
James Landrith
Chief Wiggles
L.T. Smash
damnum absque injuria
Daniel W. Drezner
OxBlog
Reason of Voice
Steven Den Beste
Wonkette!
Cranial Cavity
Gibberish in Neutral
DramaQueen
vivalabloog
Classics in Contemporary Culture
The LLama Butchers
flvbutton.gif
HobbsOnLine
ACIDMAN
Sector 7-G
Zogby Blog
mtpolitics.net
Horologium
Civic Dialogues
Practical Penumbra
Right Wing News
Stranger in a Strange Land
Ambient Irony
Tiger: Raggin' & Rantin'
Read My Lips
Jay Solo
The Alliance
The Smallest Minority
Wrong Side of Happiness
Wince and Nod
One Little Victory
Fishbucket
suburban blight
Sketches of Strain
Boi from Troy
Being American in T.O.
Outside the Beltway
One Fine Jay
Bill and Kent's Place on the Web
Burton Terrace
This Book Stinks
The Happy Carpenter
Political Correctness Watch
GREENIE WATCH
Resource.full
This Liberal"
Brainville
BLAMBLOG
Ordinary Galoot
QandO
Josh Cohen
Extra Ordinary Ideas
brykMantra
Croooow Blog
Old Right
commiewatch
Yourishweb.jpg
Proculian Meditations
UggaBugga
Dustin the No-Longer-Blogless
Les Jones Blog
Temporal Globe
Postcards from Nowhere
Tarazet
Unfogged
Synthstuff
Riba Rambles
Mitch Berg
The National Debate
scha-den-freu-de
Ocean Guy
Topic Exchange
CELESTIAL OFFERINGS
Texas Native
Somewhere over the Rainbough
Why read this?
End NPR Bias
Ace of Spades HQ
Web Dawn
GANGSTORIES
Sheila Astray's Redheaded Ramblings
Alan Sullivan (Seablogger)
hobbyblog
activistchat.com/blogiran/
FuturePundit.com
Tim Blair
A Voyage To Arcturus
HipperCritical
BarlowFriendz
Jihad Watch
Kin's Kouch
Bad Money
The Campblog
News Junkie Canada
De Doc's Doings
Bigwig
Eject!Eject!Eject!
Tom's Nap Room
A Coon Cat's World
The sexual adventures of Woodie and Peaches
Crystalline Ceramics Web Resource
Heh. Indeed.
NakedVillainy.com
Andrew David Chamberlain
The Karmic Inquisition
Adam Smith Institute Weblog
Andrea Harris
Hi. I'm Black
Banana Oil
Jim Miller on Politics
Who Tends the Fires
Ranck and File
MOLOTOV COCKTAIL FRANK
NOLI IRRITARE LEONES
Miss O'Hara
deadmaus
Coffee With Rhoads
robot guy
Travelling Shoes
Admiral Quixote's Roundtable
danm.us
The Argus
Dissecting Leftism
Dissecting Leftism -- OLD Site
Aaron's cc
Commentariat
The Argus - Registan
INDC Journal
Pundit Ex Machina
DeMythology
Peppermint Tea
Gilly's World
Beyond the Black Hole
La Shawn Barber"
FREE IRAN NEWS button
Perverse Access Memory
Invisible Adjunct
Photon Courier
Intel Dump
Junkscience.com
The SmarterCop
Laban Tall
Banagor
Peeve Farm
Rand Simberg
camedwards.com
Kim du Toit
Mrs. du Toit
Dancing with Dogs
Two--Four
Heretical Ideas
Astonished Head
Outlandish Josh
Central Oregon for Dean
ghostofaflea.com
The White Peril 白禍 (Sean Kinsell)
www.blktlr.com
Subterranean Bungalo
DFMoore
Dave Halliday
Well Versed
Qoheleth 60: Joel Moody's Repository
quo vado
jonrowe.blogspot.com
yellopad
Sticks of Fire
Dissecting Leftism
ByteMagick
Blogs of War
PRESTOPUNDIT
Of Interest
The Meatriarchy
Bernhardt Varenius
The Forager
Miller?s Time
Blogs of War
painting to stay (?) sane
Blue Goldfish | Surface
Clowning Glory
House of Payne International
Last Chance Caf馬t;/a>
Psychology of Leftism
a_sdf
CONSERVATISM/RIGHTISM
Taylor & Company
The Vicious Circle
Leftists as Elitists
Eye of the Storm
A scratch area
Wicked Thoughts
Filtrat
The Bayou City Perspective
The Belfry Blogger
Setting The World To Rights
Ljonn.com
Oddly Normal
Varifrank
Jamie Jamison on Technology
GayPatriot
A New York Escorts Confessions
jamescalvin.com
The Eleven Day Empire
Dr. Rusty Shackleford
Eric's Grumles Before The Grave
Belmont Club
Gumbo Pie
BeldarBlog
MooreThoughts
Blind Adherence
Last One Speaks
Logic Monkey
Bird's Eye View
DIRTY WATER
Forgadring
precision-guided cowboy
Punditmania
Minor Thoughts
Just Askin'
HispaLibertas
Let's Try Freedom
Megan McArdle
Ann Althouse
Beautiful Atrocities
Sean Hackbarth
Power and Control
Professor Bainbridge
Power Line
Dialogic
Darleen's Place
I'm N.O. Pundit!
Done With Mirrors
AMERICAN FUTURE
CodeBlueBlog
Gay Orbit
Urthshu
Zacht Ei
Interested-Participant
blake taylor
The Anchoress
Freespeech.com
Spiked
Decision '08 (Mark Coffey)
White Lightning Axiom: Redux
The Big Picture
Rachel Lucas BEI
John Cole
Haight Speech
evolution: on the loose
Moderates of all Nations, Unite!
Jeff Gannon
THE GLEESON BLOGLOMERATE
Pajama Pundits
Centerpiece
The Radical Centrist
Lab-Tested
FreedomSight
AmbivaBlog
evolution
Marx & Friends in their own words
Elective Application
Religion Research Islam Blog
YOUNGPUNDIT.COM
{finding peace in the chaos}
IQ & PC -- By Chris Brand
Classics in Contemporary Culture
Morse's Code
A&W
Bench Marx
Julie Neidlinger
Shades of Gray
The Daily Lion: NeoLibertarianism on a Stick
Miller's Time
Centerpiece
This Liberal
Coming Anarchy
Lay Lines
that'sRich
the blog eclectic
booklore
Yankee Madmen
Jesusland Expatriate
Amazing Motor Girls
Spiced Sass
Decline and Fall of Western Civilization
Modern Crusader
MaroonBlog
Skriblerier, etc.
I am partially fused with infinity
Eros Colored Glasses
Bill Peschel: The man comes around
The Twins Tell the Truth
wickens.ca
The War of Ideas
ConsterNations
EaglesUp Blog
Vitriolics Anonymous
DIRTY WATER
Mean Mr. Mustard 2.0
EDUCATION WATCH
THE RIGHT SCALE
AIS Knight Hammer
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE
The Argus
DON'T BE DUMB!
Blue Goldfish | Surface
GUN WATCH
De Docs Institute for Memetic Engineering And Polymaths...
Wordpress Test Weblog
Kapowie Zone
Political Theory: Weblogs
You know, they say...
all blogged down
Harkonnendog
Big Dirigible
GeoPoliticalreview.com
Coyote Blog
Blog Retrofuturistic
VietPundit
JasonColeman.com
Logical Meme
Bloggledygook
Discursive Recursions
Bird's Eye View
Right Wing Nut House
ELEMENOHPEE
Locusts and Honey
Moonbattery
The Everlasting Phelps
Mythusmage Opines
The Cassandra Page
Of Arms & the Law
The Daily Bork
Strange Stuff
Another Gay Republican
Libertarian Man of Mystery
Liberty Just In Case
TalkLeft
Joe's Dartblog
Iowa Hawk
The Common Room
Darth Vader
Gay Bipolar Republican
Boxing Alcibiades
Baby TrollBlog
Strange Fictions
Urban Hermit
The Eye of Polyphemus
Toe In The Water
Bryan's Basement
Fishkite
Right on the Left Coast
Beltway Buzz
pike speak
Scared Monkeys
The Mudville Gazette
Matt Sheffield
Undercaffeinated
Trey Jackson
NashvilleFiles.com
Moonbat Central
Dust my Broom
The Cliffs of Insanity
Riding Sun
The Modo Blog
Philly Future
philly
Off In The Tall Weeds
Doug Petch.Com
Gays for Life
the True Nature of Reality
Spinning Clio
Mike Huckabee President 2008
A.E.Brain
that rogueclassicist guy
A M㯠Invisí¶¥l
Constantly Risking Absurdity
Laurence Simon
Notes & Musings
A World of Speculation
Weird Events
Pit Bull Wars
New World Man
Mark in Mexico
The Palmetto Pundit
All Things Jen(nifer)
Generic Confusion
Justus for All
iHillary
Michael Totten
Don Surber
Maggie's Farm
Unpaid Punditry Corps
The Counter Hippie
Kicking On Doors
FunnyBusiness
Restless Mania
Mark Tapscott
nobody sasses a girl in glasses
Letters from the Bostonian Exile
The Education Wonks
Diana Hseih
just muttering
Right-Wing of the Gods
Michelle Malkin
Inside Larry's Head
Ballpoint Wren
A Blog For All
The Liberal Wrong
American Outlook
Splog Reporter
From the Grand Stand
Tinabell
Affordable Housing Institute
mudphud
Living In The Past
Searchlight Crusade
Gus Van Horn
Ian Schwartz
One Billion Red Chinese and a Dog Named Liberty
Suburban Bourgeois
The Metropolis Times
DR. HELEN
Philadelphia AIDS Thrift
Sir Humphrey's
Birth Story
The Simplest Thing
Blue Star Chronicles
One Stack Mind
Cathy Young
Neocon Express
A A R D V A R K
World Climate Report
Apartment 604
Yelling at the Windshield
Kimdergarten/
ShrinkWrapped
The Bear Cave
X marks the blogspot
CARRY ON AMERICA
Jim Rose
Kiril, The Mad Macedonian
Signal 94
Pseudo-Polymath
The International Libertarian
Gates of Vienna
California Sojourn
The Liberty Papers
Barcepundit
A. Jacksonian
Jon Swift
Tim Maguire
Three Sticks
Asymmetric
Dog Politics
OregonGuy
Little Miss Attila
Buuuuurrrrning Hot
AGENT BEDHEAD
Tygrrrr Express
David Harsanyi
Snowflakes in Hell
Earnest Iconoclast
Eternity Road
Musings of the GeekWithA.45
Total Survivalist Libertarian Rantfest
Argue With Everyone Political Forum
Nathan J. Winograd
Assistant Village Idiot
Parkway Rest Stop
Grouchy Old Cripple
Technicalities
Coalition of the Swilling
TigerHawk
Mary Madigan
Sad Old Goth
Erica Sherman
Joated

Ezra Levant
Kathy Shaidle
Free Dominion
Small Dead Animals
Habitation of Justice
GAYS DEFEND MARRIAGE
IEC Fusion Technology Blog
John Bambenek
Adventures in Existence
The Discerning Observer
Economists for McCain
The Truth Laid Bear
Socrates' Academy
jpfoUSA.gif
Armed and Dangerous

SupportDenmarkSmall2EN.png
holocausthp.jpg

Vin Suprynowicz


Tongue Tied
Link to Samizdata - please save the button to your own 

server

My Watergate Blog

rhino_sm.jpg



pj-button-04.gif

The Neolibertarian Network

BUMPERBANstupsm_1_.jpg



Syndicate this site (XML)







Blogroll Classical Values!

Search Popdex:


Pssst!

Wanna get on the Classical Values blogroll?

linkhead.gif Don?t bang your head!

Please send me an email and let me know, because although I try to keep up, sometimes I have trouble finding every last link.



Site Credits



classicalvalues.com

classicalvalues.com

(Link buttons)