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November 13, 2007
Liberals are snobs and conservatives are boors!
No, that's not what this wonderful post by Connie du Toit says. Nor is the title even my characterization of what Connie says. It's my satirical reaction to it by way of deliberately grotesque oversimplification. But why should liberals feel out of place at a gun range? And why should conservatives feel out of place at a ballet or art museum? The kind of things that go to the heart of human differences and make people hate each other really ought to be topics for humor. And, if possible, self-deprecating humor on both sides, instead of hateful pronouncements like this provocative tidbit of conventional (now all too typical) liberal wisdom: "There are two Americas. One is the America of Lincoln and Adlai Stevenson; the other is the America of Teddy Roosevelt and the modern superpatriots. One is generous and humane, the other narrowly egotistical; one is self-critical, the other self-righteous; one is sensible, the other romantic; one is good-humored, the other solemn; one is inquiring, the other pontificating; one is moderate, the other filled with passionate intensity; one is judicious and the other arrogant in the use of great power."The quote is from J. William Fulbright's The Arrogance of Power. It's relevant because Fulbright was highly influential and Bill Clinton's mentor -- although I'm sure I could find an equally smug and simplistic conservative quotation. While nothing will ever explain the process fully, I think that what Connie du Toit said gets close (uncomfortably close, IMO) to understanding the psychology of this divide: If we, as conservatives, cannot laud beauty and shun ugliness... if we are not able nor willing to discriminate against ugliness, ignorance, or the simpleton by risking a supposed encroachment on another's freedom to choose badly, then we will lose. If we cannot champion the arts, language, and culture and both appreciate and understand it, then our stewardship of our civilization has ended. We have consciously and callously handed it to the other side or dropped the baton entirely.Read it all, because by quoting it in part, I am not doing justice to all of Connie's thoughts. It is worth noting that she starts with an admission that she is a snob. This is something I was taught never to admit, and to this day I refuse to admit it. Of course, whether that makes me a liberal or a conservative is not the point, because I don't aspire to either "category." If I am a snob, then I am in denial about it. Perhaps that's a feature I share with "liberals"; perhaps not. (It would not surprise me if there are conservatives and maybe a few Libertarians and libertarians and pseudolibertarians who keep such things in the closet.) Here's a paradox for you. I think that conservatives tend to be less snobbish. But that's wrong, because to the extent that they are snobbish, they tend to admit it. Liberals, however, tend to be so steeped in snobbery -- and from such an early age -- that no sooner do they learn how to be snobs than they learn how to deny it. Don't you dare say that we're better than other people! (Even if we know we are....) This is an all-permeating denial that denies even itself. Hey don't expect me to write about it. All I can do is leave a comment like the one I just tried to leave (I think the comments are delayed or closed): Wonderful, wonderful post. The problem is, it just makes me so incredibly sad, because it's a reminder that my mother was right, that some things are beyond the appreciation of some people, but to dare discuss them is to risk being considered a snob.Well, my general tendency is to think that if you can't talk about something freely, why not make fun of it? I mean, we all hate each other, right? That's a given. But is it necessary to kill each other over it? Was it necessary to have the culture war between radically simplistic Abolitionists and radically simplistic property rights fanatics who believed in human chattel escalate to a shooting war? Why is it that the British were able to do away with slavery without a Civil War? Might the origins of the Civil War be at least partially related to this observation by Oscar Wilde? America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between.Or did Wilde even say that? Bear in mind that while this is one of Wilde's most famous quotes (I first read it in high school), his Wiki entry claims it is unsourced. If it is "misattributed" to Wilde, then it's one of the most famous misattributions of all time. Come on, he really must have said it. If it looks like Wilde and sounds like Wilde, then it might as well be Wilde. Right? Get with the program! We need to know how barbarous Wilde thought we were even if we weren't! Sorry for this digression, but it seems worth the time spent. (I'd hate to think that a masochistic national inferiority complex would fuel a massive misattribution!) Here the remark is said to have been made during Wilde's 1882 tour. And this reviewer rather uncritically attributes it to Lady Windermere's Fan, but the review involves a butchered "updated" version of the play. Still no actual page citation anywhere. No line and verse, no citation to a scholarly anthology anywhere It is said to be "atttributed" but not sourced here. What the hell does "attributed" mean? This is a famous man of letters. His writings were widely published and he did tour the United States. Had he written this down it could be looked up, and had he said it, it would have been reported. I'd like to know when it was first attributed to him; if it was while he was alive, it's more probable he said it than if some unknown prankster misattributed Clemenceau (1945) to Wilde. It also comes up as an "unsourced" quote attributed to George Bernard Shaw. But the earliest actual, citable, reference to the quote I can find would seem to be in Frank Lloyd Wright's autobiography, which mentions "a witty Frenchman": * America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilisation in betweeno Also attributed to Oscar Wilde and Georges Clemenceau. Earliest citation to Clemenceau by Hans Bendix, "Merry Christmas, America!" The Saturday Review of Literature, 1945-12-01, p. 9. Mentioned in Frank Lloyd Wright: An Autobiography (1943):+ A witty Frenchman has said of us: "The United States of America is the only nation to plunge from barbarism to degeneracy with no culture in between. Not that it especially matters who said something that so obviously and profoundly might as well have been said by someone profound. But let's assume Clemenceau said it and not Wilde. Would that make it more serious? I think so. Wilde was a humorist, and Clemenceau was a more of a moralist. People swallow moral criticism more easily when it's packaged as comedy. And Wilde, the foppish Englishman, traveled to America and appreciated this country in a manner that Clemenceau, the clueless Frenchman (and architect of the precursor to World War II) never could. I admit, I'm not much of a fan of Clemenceau, and I don't like seeing his quotes rebadged, if that's what's going on. However, if the goal here is to understand American psychology, I think the fact that the remark has broader appeal coming from Wilde than it would coming from Clemenceau is more interesting than either the remark itself or how true it might be. (Of course, if Hitler had said it, it would have been considered a despicable and evil remark, and likely rebutted eloquently by FDR.) Another famous quote (being less likely to generate ill will because of its general nature) is widely attributed to nearly everyone : Anyone who is not a socialist at 16 has no heart, but anyone who still is at 32 has no mind.Who said that? It really doesn't matter. Seriously. Just check out this collection of quotes which all say the same thing: There are many different versions of the same basic quote ? Take your pick?Sheesh. I don't have time to track these down and figure out who had the thought first! I mean, what if Plato quoted Socrates as saying basically the same thing as a common sense observation? I think there are basic differences between the way certain types of people and certain types of minds view the world. They are translated into politics by a process of reduction, which all too often means liberal versus conservative and you have to take your pick. I'm not taking a pick! I think it's grotesque mental tyranny to tell people that they should pick and then belong to one group or another. People should be allowed to think for themselves. The problem is, that just isn't in the interest of those who want to lead or those who want to follow, which makes it wildly impractical in the real world, but food for a blog post. (The wonderful thing about writing blog posts is that there's just as much right to misunderstand as there is to be misunderstood. Not so in real life.) UPDATE: Thank you, Connie du Toit -- for the link and the kind words! posted by Eric on 11.13.07 at 11:19 AM
Comments
One of my favorite quotes, from an old issue of Granta goes something like, "The liberal intelligencia may be effete, shallow, irrelevant, but when they go, everything of value will go with them." Another favorite quote regarding the possibly Wilde quote: "A clever phrase proves nothing" attributed to Voltaire. tim maguire · November 13, 2007 02:19 PM Apropos of nothing in particular... the famous Churchill retort to a society matron who chastised him at a party for being drunk: Anonymous · November 13, 2007 07:01 PM Yes, and I think the same woman (perhaps it was Lady Astor) also came up to Churchill and said, "If I were your wife I'd put poison in your tea." To which Churchill is said to have replied, "And if I were your husband I'd drink it!" Eric Scheie · November 14, 2007 09:56 AM Cool site. Thank you!!! decorated christmas trees · December 9, 2007 08:56 PM Cool site. Thank you!!! decorated christmas trees · December 9, 2007 08:56 PM Post a comment
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Wonderful? What? Terrifying, if anything.
Because my reasons for not being a "liberal" are so frequently reinforced by the omnnipresence of leftist assholery, I forget sometimes how unlike "conservatives" I am, and how crazy they are. The instinct for mere opposition rises up a little, and I start to mistake them for my friends. But
if we are not able nor willing to discriminate against ugliness, ignorance, or the simpleton by risking a supposed encroachment on another's freedom to choose badly, then we will lose
is a fine reminder that justifications for society-wide violence against anything that isn't we are available in any language. "Civilization" is not "what's left after everything and everyone I hate is destroyed." It's everything but that.
I can hear the objection: "What the hell are you on about? There's no call for mass destruction there. It's about liking paintings and stuff." Really? What else could it possibly mean? This world of the lovely, how do you get there?
This is politics. It's fundamentally about deciding who dies. You can't clean the world without taking out the trash. Or at least walling them off from it.
Who wants that? Almost everybody, sadly.