Given the Choice between a Communist and a Culture Warrior I'll take the Communist.
Why? Because a Communist might admit that a policy doesn't work. A Culture Warrior will say: God Says. Making the Culture Warrior immune to reason. For the most part.
You aren't doing the math. Communists are much more deadly than Culture Warriors.
And you are poisoning the well. Not coalition building behavoir. And after all the nice compromises I advanced!
Look, why don't you advance some small government ideas that address socon concerns? Religious freedom is actually a pretty easy sell. Protestant denominations are small, and even the Catholics are not a majority of Christians, so everyone feels like a minority. In fact, with Baptists you can make religious freedom a point of historical pride since they invented it. It's worth repeating. Jews like yourself did not invent religious freedom. Baptists did. (I am not a Baptist.)
One way to end the culture war is to work on a peace treaty. You are lobbing mortar shells.
Actually if you look at the Noahide Laws Jews did invent religious freedom. There was one set of laws for believers and another set for those of different persuasions.
And did you notice that I'm not against Christianity? I'm against Theocracy.
That is why I like Palin. She seems to be able to tell (so far) the difference between religion and government and why it is a good thing to keep them separate.
Or look at the mess socons have made of the California Republican Party.
I dunno. You don't seem to be able to pick up on my nuance. At least until I explain it. So there is that.
I never saw no Commies cancel no government programs before...
Mike Foster · October 30, 2009 4:32 PM
Actually if you look at the Noahide Laws Jews did invent religious freedom. There was one set of laws for believers and another set for those of different persuasions.
True. It wouldn't be the first time the Baptists picked up an idea from the Jews.
I dunno. You don't seem to be able to pick up on my nuance. At least until I explain it. So there is that.
Yes, I do have a hard time picking up some written nuances. Particularly humorous ones. But you and I are definitely not on the same wavelength yet. I've been reading your stuff for a long time, here, on Power and Control and on Talk Polywell, and there are some things about your style I do not understand yet.
I will grant arguendo your unrealistic stereotype of "culture warrior": wants to make illegal every sort of behavior he considers immoral.
Communists are totalitarian. To try to achieve their workers' paradise, they have to be. To make everyone "equal", they have to dictate the full range of human behavior. And if they don't like you, they kill you.
Remember, communists are convinced that their way is superior, and that those who oppose them are evil. You can't be a communist and not believe that.
Even the best Communist wants to steal the product of your labor. The worst culture warrior will leave you alone if you hide your private life.
Simon, I'm a libertarian and an atheist and I'm having a little trouble picking up your nuance as well. You seem to be equating socons/theocons/culture warriors with theocratic tyranny. I do not think that is a fair comparison.
Now maybe I don't know enough socons but the few I do know are all pretty much small government conservatives as well as social conservatives. Yes they have some positions I strongly disagree with, but by and large they believe in democracy and the rule of law as we have known it.
With the communists everything is political and politicized and the party rules all. Democracy goes out the window, private property likewise. Mob violence, imprisonment, kangaroo courts, torture, murder, vast gulag systems and genocide are all acceptable methods of dealing with political dissenters. The Spanish Inquisition was enlightened by comparison.
I fairness to your argument, if you see Palin as an acceptable socon then I don'tthink there is as much daylight between your position and mine as your post implies.
As for real Theocracy ala the Taliban, yes, they are monsters, but marxist zealots are every bit as impervious to reason as the Taliban is. Christian socons at least recognize the fallible nature of man, communists believe in the perfectibility of man in this life, the socialist New Man, and they intend to create him, even if they have to kill 25 million or so recalcitrants in the process.
Greg
Greg · October 30, 2009 5:11 PM
Loren et. al. Let me put it to you plain.
Keyes vs Obama 2004 Senate race. A LOT of Republicans voted for Obama or no voted that race. Keyes 27% Obama 70%. Bush got 45% of a larger vote total. So what does that tell you? In Illinois at least 18% and probably closer to 25% of the people who vote are anti-theocon. You can't win elections or come even close with that big a hole.
A culture warrior put a Communist in office by a huge margin.
The Culture War is not popular. American Taliban may be hyperbole. It resonates.
So my advice to Culture Warriors - take the war out of the government sector or be prepared to be ruled by communists.
And you will note that I am not adverse to conservatives: I support Doug Hoffman and Sarah Palin. Neither of which has run on a Culture War platform.
Now if I could get conservatives to be more libertarian friendly that would be nice. Very nice. But I'd settle for an end to the Culture War.
You don't like gay marriage? Fine. Get the government out of marriage.
You don't like the proliferation of drugs? Excellent. Legalize them and put them in drugstores instead of empowering the drug cartels with prohibition. Cartels do not check IDs or have age restrictions.
You want to see stronger Black families? Me too. Stop putting so many Black men in jail for violating prohibition laws. The drug laws are disproportionately enforced against Blacks. Why? White people wouldn't put up with it.
Stop going to government to solve social problems. Government is not inclined to do that. Their pay is dependent on the problems. And if by some miracle government actually did solve a problem it would not go out of business - it would keep taking your money and just redeploy its minions.
It is people of little faith who feel they have to resort to guns to get their way.
Yes. Abortion is horrible. Putting government in charge of stomping it out would be worse.
And the Government schools you rail about? That was championed as indoctrination centers for true Americanism by Protestants against Catholics and Jews. Well they are still indoctrination centers. How did that work out?
When you try to get what you want by force it has unforeseen consequences. Best not to open that Pandora's Box.
And if that wasn't enough for you: look at what the Culture War Republican Party of California has done for the prospects of the Republican Party in that State.
And how did weak kneed Republican Arnie S. get to be Governor? He did it in a race that allowed him to bypass the California Republican Party.
And remember that a libertarian Republican became one of our most popular Presidents. If you judge by elections. Remember Reagan Democrats? Socially liberal fiscally Conservative.
Interesting that 40% of Americans call themselves conservative, but only something like 20% now consider themselves Republican. I'd bet if you defined conservatism strictly fiscally and not culturally, a lot more Americans would identify as conservative - probably a large majority.
It's pretty clear you hate socons and want to drive them from the party, Simon.
This shows that Eric understands politics and you don't. Either that, or his essential gentility and kindness is just far more persuasive than snark and bitterness.
I really don't care about ending the drug war. It presses none of my buttons. Zero. I think it would bring almost no one to the voting booth. You are a voice in the wilderness, Simon. I just don't see the passion in a significant portion of the electorate. You would think it would be popular among blacks, but it isn't.
What are my small government buttons? Ending the EPA? Sure. That's a state function. Making wood legal again? Sure. Getting rid of OHSA? Cool, another state function. Making it illegal for unions to force people to join merely by a coercive election? Freedom of association, man. How about a union anti-trust act? That would be good. But frankly the electorate doesn't care about these things either.
But abortion actually gets people into the voting booth.
The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Don?t bang your head!
You aren't doing the math. Communists are much more deadly than Culture Warriors.
And you are poisoning the well. Not coalition building behavoir. And after all the nice compromises I advanced!
Look, why don't you advance some small government ideas that address socon concerns? Religious freedom is actually a pretty easy sell. Protestant denominations are small, and even the Catholics are not a majority of Christians, so everyone feels like a minority. In fact, with Baptists you can make religious freedom a point of historical pride since they invented it. It's worth repeating. Jews like yourself did not invent religious freedom. Baptists did. (I am not a Baptist.)
One way to end the culture war is to work on a peace treaty. You are lobbing mortar shells.
Yours,
Tom Degisi