A Marine Needs Help

A lawyer in Chicago, Jay R. Grodner, appears to have been caught in the act of keying a Marine's car and it looks like he is going to get away with it. Black Five has the details.

Marine Sgt Mike McNulty is on activation orders to Iraq (second tour). On December 1st, 2007, Mike went to visit a friend in Chicago before deploying to say goodbye. In order to get to his friend's residence, and keep in mind that Chicago is a myriad of diagonal and one-way streets, the front entrance (right way) to the one-way street was blocked. Mike, being a Marine, overcame and adapted by driving around the block to the other end of the street and backing up all the way to his friend's place.

While saying goodbye, at about 11am, he noticed a man leaning up against his car. Mike left his friend's apartment and caught the man keying his car on multiple sides.

That is bad. However, the police were called and arrested the lawyer.

However the weasely lawyer looks like he is going to skate on the charges.

As it turns out, the man is Chicago lawyer Jay R. Grodner, who owns a law firm in the city and has offices in the suburbs.

After sending the car to the body shop, it was determined there is $2400 in damage, making this a felony. Mike went to court Friday morning to collect the damages against Mr. Grodner and file felony charges. Though the damages are over $300 (the amount which determines felony or misdemeanor) Grodner offered Mike to pay his deductible, $100, and have Mike's insurance pay for it.

The Illinois States Attorneys tried to coerce Mike into accepting the offer. Appalled, Mike said he wanted this to be a felony. The state told Mike that it was not worth pursuing felony damage against Grodner because they don't have the time. In addition, the state prosecutors told him that he would never it 'would be difficult to recover the damages' from Grodner because he is a lawyer.

Instead, the State asked Mike if he would accept probation for Grodner. Mike accepted, probation was offered to Grodner, and Grodner declined the offer, saying within ear shot of Mike, "I'm not going to make it easy on this kid". Mike's next court date is tomorrow, Monday, December 31st, to pursue misdemeanor charges against Grodner.

Mike's leave is over on January 2nd when he reports to Camp Pendleton before heading to Iraq.

Jay Grodner knows this and is going to file for a continuance until Mike is gone and cannot appear in court.

By account of the Illinois State's Attorneys, Grodner is likely to get away with defacing Mike's car with no penalty because, 1) Mike is about to deploy to Iraq and will not be available to appear in court, and 2) Grodner is a lawyer and can get out of this very easily.

So, does anyone have any ideas about how to proceed? All peaceful and rational ideas are welcomed. We are contacting the media about this, too.

If you have any ideas on how this can be resolved (yeah I know - but the Marine wants to do it legal like) contact Black Five at his blog or send him an e-mail

blackfive
at
gmail
dot
com


A commenter at Black Five suggested contacting Mr. Grodner who appears to be a paternity lawyer:

Law Offices of Jay R. Grodner

Principal Office-Deerfield
625 Deerfield Road -Suite 406
Deerfield, IL 60015
Phone: (847) 444-1500
Fax: (847) 444-0663

Downtown Chicago
30 N. LaSalle St. - Suite 1210
Chicago, IL 60602
Phone: (312) 236-1142
Fax: (312) 236-6036
Email: jayrg8@aol.com
Web: http://www.jaygrodner.com

Be as nice as you can. After all he is a lawyer.

Might I also suggest having a look at what other Black Five commenters have recommended?

Search Google for Jay R. Grodner. It appears that Jay is getting a lot of - shall we say - interesting press.

Update 01 Jan 008 0944z:

It appears that Mr. Grodner is in a bit of legal trouble with the Illinois State's Attorney. A Black Five reader provides this eye witness account of yesterdays court proceedings.

I am writing to produce an update of the results of Sgt McNulty's case against Jay R Grodner. I was present in support of Mike and thought you may be interested in an update for this story.

Sgt McNulty was called forward by the State's Attorney in order to discuss the case. I am not sure what transpired behind the closed doors, however, I overheard the State's Attorney expressing her intent to prosecute this guy to the fullest extent. It seems as if BlackFive is the sole catalyst to this story getting out and I am sure Sgt McNulty has probably heard the effect of yours and other blogs from the results of today's proceedings to include several Marines and civilians who showed up in his support.

Jay R Grodner was called before court and in his absence, the Judge issued a warrant for his arrest effective immediately. Sgt McNulty was departing the court when Grodner rolled in to the courtroom more pathetic than anyone I had ever seen. The Judge had questioned him on his tardiness and he explained that traffic had been busy and he 'made a wrong turn'. The Judge chastised him for his tardiness, pathetic excuses, and that he was lucky the warrant had not been executed prior to his arrival.

It seems the blogosphere has put the ball in Sgt McNulty's court. Furthermore, it is also apparent that the State's Attorney's Office has decided to take this matter on a much more serious level. A new and very aggressive State's Attorney seems to have a genuine interest in pursuing this case to the extent that it warrants.

It seems that all the heat bloggers brought to bear on the situation is going to create some light. Way to go guys. Kudos to Black Five and Instapundit for helping to get the word out.

Update: 03 Jan 008 0629z

The Chicago Tribune has more details on the story.

H/T Instapundit

Cross Posted at Power and Control

posted by Simon on 12.31.07 at 03:56 AM










Comments

I've posted this info on our web site and asked our posters to please respond. Thanks for being there for this young man.

http://foolswisdom.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=general

I'm hoping Jay is feeling the love!

Prairie   ·  December 31, 2007 6:43 AM

Shouldn't lawyers who commit felonies be disbarred?

Brett   ·  December 31, 2007 7:53 AM

Sickening. I notice Grodner is a former prosecutor, which means he has probably put other people away for similar offenses.

He deserves to be disbarred for this (assuming he did it, of course).

Links are disappearing but here's the cache:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:xZTVvXUOh74J:www.jaygrodner.com/Jay%2520Grodner.htm+jay+grodner&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

I supervised several lawyers and staff in representation of the interests of the People of the State of Illinois and the County of Kane. We prosecuted minors charged with juvenile delinquency (criminal offences which would be felonies or misdemeanors if committed by adults (17 years old or over); Minors in need of supervision - (no longer a category in Juvenile Court) refers to a collection of "status offences" like curfew, underage smoking (now treated more seriously), underage drinking, truancy, disorderly conduct, school disturbances, etc.; Dependent and Abused Children.
Eric Scheie   ·  December 31, 2007 11:28 AM

wtf people? does this really rise to the level of national outrage and the harassment your advocating? his car was scratched for reasons unstated (could it have anything to do with how he "overcame and adapted") and where does being a marine fit it to any of this? grow up and pay attention to more important issues, like why is this guy having to go on a second tour...

ibfamous   ·  December 31, 2007 4:00 PM

The new America where everybody skates for everything.

T-Ray   ·  December 31, 2007 4:05 PM

Eric

Go to another board where they are talking about the war.

Richard Cook   ·  December 31, 2007 4:35 PM

Now, we know the miscreant's full name and profession, and that's usually enough to find out where he lives, where he works, and what he drives, no? Not that I'm suggesting that anyone invade the fellow's privacy or interfere with his property. That would be wrong. But he could be induced to feel a little...unwanted interest from offended others without violating his civil rights. The sort that might move him to invest in a new, very expensive security system for his house and car. Something that costs about $2400, maybe?

Francis W. Porretto   ·  December 31, 2007 4:36 PM

why is this guy having to go on a second tour...

Because we are in a very long war with the jihadis. One that started for America around 1785.

====

In 1786 Jefferson and John Adams went to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy to London, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman or (Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). They asked him by what right he extorted money and took slaves. Jefferson reported to Secretary of State John Jay, and to the Congress:

The ambassador answered us that [the right] was founded on the Laws of the Prophet (Mohammed), that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as prisoners, and that every Mussulman (or Muslim) who should be slain in battle was sure to go to heaven.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War

M. Simon   ·  December 31, 2007 4:38 PM

Francis,

He has already had to shut down all his phone lines and close his www sites. I'm betting he will have to get new offices (if he still practices) and to top it off a number of Chicago police officers are interested in the case. I sure hope he doesn't have mud on his license plate or a burned out tail light.

He will probably be moving his residence and having to get plastic surgery (his picture has been posted at various places).

And thanks to Google he may no longer be practicing law under his own name.

A security system is the least of his problems.

And then there is the fear factor. I'm guessing he will be living in a Motel 6 for a few months. With frequent changes of location. It would have been much cheaper for him to pay the damages.

BTW he offered to pay the Marine's deductible and let the Marine's insurance pay the rest. An admission of guilt.

BTW he had offices on LaSalle St. Which is where the big time lawyers in Chicago hang out. If he has a long term lease he is fooked.

M. Simon   ·  December 31, 2007 4:57 PM

wtf, why all the outrage over a keyed car. maybe the marine parked too close and banged the lawyers door when he got out. maybe the lawyer acted like a punk kid, but sheesh, outing his phone number, email and address on the net in faux outrage. Haven't you bozos got anything better to get all waxed up about?

bill T   ·  December 31, 2007 6:14 PM

How ya gonna feel if one of the lunatic fringe stalks him and creepy-crawls the lawyer's house and gets shot for his trouble? probably more faux outrage.

bill T   ·  December 31, 2007 6:16 PM

The phones were already disconnected.

The e-mail doesn't work.

Just a little reverse keying.

And if some miscreant does the brave Jay any harm the person should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. Unless the person is a lawyer.

M. Simon   ·  December 31, 2007 6:28 PM

BTW the phone #s and addresses are public info from Jay's www site. Which is no longer up.

Not to fear. The info can still be found at the Chicago lawyer's referral site.

Note I didn't even mention how to find Jay's home phone and address. Which I could have. I thought about it. Hard. Then decided it was over the top.

I didn't want to see him hurt. Just put out of business. Potential clients ought to know who they are hiring. You know. The character thing.

M. Simon   ·  December 31, 2007 6:33 PM

Why did Grodner key the car? This is one strange call for vigilante justice. Grodner may very well be a total scumbag, but you folks need an ethics check.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 1:10 AM

Yogi asks,

Why did Grodner key the car? Why not contact him and get the story from the horses mouth? A number of people have tried contacting him and it seems his web page is down and his phones are disconnected.

And please point out where in the post any one called for vigilante justice. I thought I made it clear that all actions to be taken were to be absolutely legal. In fact I made it a point to say that folks should not do anything illegal despite impulses to the contrary.

I posted his business contact info so that folks could be warned about doing business with such scum. I had other impulses as noted above and restrained myself.

I absolutely do not want to be involved in instigating a crime. However, I think it is important for people to know who they do business with. Consider this the Web 2.0 version of the Better Business Bureau.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 4:28 AM

I can't believe some of you people are making excuses for the lawyer. " maybe the kid parked too close or banged the lawyers door" are you kidding me! Did your brain fall into your lap? This lawyer is obviously a far left liberal and decided to get even with a marine who fights for his country. I doubt that the lawyer has ever been in the military and has little respect for the law. Is'nt that interesting a lawyer with no respect for the law!

J. Garcia   ·  January 1, 2008 9:47 AM

YogiBarrister needs an ethics check he's calling this blog "call for vigilante justice" while questioning our ethics!
well mister barrister better blog some more for protecting your fellow lawyers. It appears your true feelings are showing!

J. Garcia   ·  January 1, 2008 9:52 AM

I wasn't making an excuse for the lawyer m.simon. I was only asking a simple question that is not covered in the initial story. They say he backed his car down the road to snag a parking spot rather than walk a few steps. Something must have pissed off the key perp making him want to key the car. Something doesn't add up. If the lawyer is indeed as you say, "a far left liberal" he would have found a much safer target rich environment for keying by looking for Romney or Huckleberry or googliani bumper stickers on cars in the supermarket parking lot. Or maybe he is just a drunken asshole. Maybe the marine stole a parking spot in front of his house he was about to park in. We've all experiineced insane neighbors who guard the parking spots in front of their house as if they owned the sidewalk AND the street as well as their house. I'd bet that initially it was a simple everyday dispute over a parking spot, which escalated when the young man confronted the lawyer who drunkenly made some slurs on the Marines. He's extremely lucky the kid didn't kick his ass hard. Sounds like a bright young man for making the decision NOT to get arrested for brawling in the street with some fat old civilian right before he ships out.

Anonymous   ·  January 1, 2008 1:13 PM

didn't mean to be anonymous. I inadvertently clicked before filling out the whole form. I blame last night's champagne.

BillT   ·  January 1, 2008 1:15 PM

Bill,

If you went to the source, Black Five, you would have found out that it was the military license plate that triggered off this jerk.

That is the beauty of the internet if you follow the links you can find things out that the writer of a story may have left out. I have to admit it was an important detail and my writing left a bit to be desired.

The scum sucker is facing a felony rap. So far so good.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 1:32 PM

M. Simon, would you please post a link to an unbiased source about this. Black Five is a rightwing, pro-war, military website, and all I can find on the internet are the echoes around the blogosphere. You DO realize there is propaganda value by claiming Grodner is an anti-military zealot? Until, I hear evidence to the contrary, I will have to assume it was a politically neutral dispute over a parking spot. In light of his alleged weaseliness, I will also assume Grodner is a loyal, Republican bushbaby.
You say it was the military tags that set off Grodner. Is this in the police report? This story appears to be a typical rightwing attack on mainstream America. They tell a lie, and then repeat the lie over and over, citing unreliable sources. Do you guys still believe that Vietnam War protesters ever ONCE spit at a returning vet?
Instead of spending so much time on a case of vandalism, why isn't Black Five reaming Bush for the shoddy treatment of our wounded troops, or for cheating them out of bonuses and the like?

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 2:22 PM

Yogi,

So far Black Five only has the report from the Marine. If you can get Grodner to talk more power to you.

The felony indictment of Grodner is an indication. All we know for sure is that Grodner keyed the car. He admitted that by offering to pay the deductible. The rest is he said/she said.

However, considering the deportment of the Marine vice Grodner, I'd take the Marine's word over that of speculators.

If you want to understand the world based on more that your Bushitlerchimpco cartoon may I suggest a little reading:

http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2008/01/policy_of_block.html

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2007/01/oil-outlook.html

http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2006/12/irans-oil-problem.html

America under Chimpco is attempting to build a future for Iraq and then use that as a basis for bringing the Middle east into a sustainable future.

You have let your hatreds blind you to the larger and so far mostly invisible currents.

And yes. Our vet system is in big trouble and needs some serious attention. I have posted a few bits on this and I'm sure Black Five has done so as well.

BTW the future of oil is in the US and Canada. Mining.

Second I'm working on this:

Easy Low Cost No Radiation Fusion
Bussard Fusion Reactor Funded
Bussard Fusion Update

I'm doing some of the work open source:

IEC Fusion Technology blog

Really Yogi. You need an education.

And no. I'm not a total fan of Bush. I think he has done some really bad things like continuing the drug war and making the churches (esp. black churches) dependent on government.

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2007/09/bought-and-paid-for.html

and our turning minority neighborhoods into war zones is despicable.

But Bush does get the big picture. His policies will be followed by who ever is the next President. The facts are too stark for it to be otherwise.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 2:59 PM

M. Simon, well at least we agree on something. The drug war is America's other, other failed war. I'm a retired parole officer, so believe me I've seen the consequences firsthand.
Here's the thing, right now rightwingers of all nationalities and religions are positively foaming at the mouth. Just like in the days leading up to WWII, American rightwingers are only making the problem worse. The invasion of Iraq, and to a lesser extent Afghanistan, have been disastrous to the economy, the environment, and our Constitution.
Just curious, are you as outraged as I am, that Ron Paul was bumped from the Fox News debate? Why do you suppose he got dropped, despite having more support that Fred Thompson?

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 3:32 PM

I voted for Ron Paul the last time he was running for President. I would never vote for him again even if he was only running for dog catcher. He is so ignorant of the world scene that he is a positive danger to the country and the world. I have no problem with Fox bumping him.

BTW current polls show Thompson's support at 2X to 3X that of Paul's. In any case Iowa is a beauty contest. On the Republican side it has no effect on convention delegates. My support for Thompson is simple. His governing policy is similar to Ron's and he gets the war.

Please read the first three links I posted if you read none of the others. It will give you a different view.

BTW had the rightwingers had their way re:the Rhineland in 1936 Europe might have avoided 1939-45.

I am firmly convinced that peacemongers help avoid small wars and thereby insure bigger ones. Their success leads to bigger failures.

The world can no longer afford to ignore failed states.

BTW America managed to spend 50% of GDP to fight WW2. Right now the cost of WW4 is running at 5% to 10% of GDP. And the economy is growing. i.e. the war is no disaster economically. Merely a small strain.

Let me add that Ron's view of money is totally ignorant.

Money used to have two purposes.

1. A store of value
2. A medium of exchange

Modern economic policy has eliminated money as a store of value. If that bothers you invest your money in industry, housing, gold, and the like. Nothing stopping you. In fact it is encouraged.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 5:01 PM

M.Simon, the rightwingers in America supported Hitler, ALL OF THEM. It was the liberals and socialists who went to battle the evil in Spain. It was the liberals who went to Canada and England to join the RAF in '39 and '40. Please cite one example of a right wing American who didn't support Hitler. I'll give you Henry Ford, Prescott Bush, Charles Limburgh. and Father Coughlin to name just a few Americans who betrayed our country.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 5:37 PM

One other point. Exactly what does the slogan of this website, "End the culture war by restoring classical values" mean? How is that any different than the right wing Muslims who want to do the same thing in their country. How is it that you can only see the folly of rightwing nuttery when it is practiced by Muslims? When rightwing Israelis kill Rabin for being too liberal, they are evil. When rightwing Christians bomb federal buildings, they are evil. It's all the same evil. I'm surprised someone as bright as you can't figure that one out.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 5:47 PM

M. Simon, where are you getting your false information from?
>


WASHINGTON (CNN) Ė Former Tennessee Sen. Fred Thompson has skidded into sixth place in a new CNN/WMUR poll of likely Republican voters in New Hampshire, edged out by ex-Libertarian and anti-war congressman Ron Paul and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee.

Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney topped the poll, widening a lead he has held for months in neighboring New Hampshire, while Arizona Sen. John McCain and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani were running close in the second and third spots.

The CNN/WMUR poll was conducted by the University of New Hampshire between Wednesday and Sunday. Pollsters surveyed 404 Republican voters for the survey, which had a sampling error of 5 percentage points.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 5:54 PM

BTW you folks had best believe that Mike Huckabee is also going to get bumped eventually by the GOP leadership. They realize, correctly IMO, that Huckabee has a good chance of winning the primary if he's allowed to stay in the race, but he has ZERO chance of winng the general election

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 5:58 PM

Well yes. In fact I knew a one handed piano player whose name escapes me at this time who came back from Spain. i can remember his face clearly. He was hanging out with my friend Marsha.

And yes. Every one was afraid of the communists at the time. And they thought that the Corpral was not serious about his plans for genocide.

The Austrian Corporal managed to kill 30 to 50 million. Communism killed 50 to 150 million.

Franco's win in Spain was a very good thing. Canaris warned him not to support the Austrian Corporal. He said early in the war that the Corporal was looking good but he had no chance.

In any case that was history made. We are making new history.

Have you read the links?

BTW I was a Democrat in my youth. A Trot in my 20s and early 30s. A Libertarian in my 40s and 50s and now a Republican (libertarian wing). I know the arguments of all the different sides. We are in fact fighting the descendants of the Austrian Corporal. Mein Kampf is still a best seller in the ME.

So if you can see the value of the left fighting that in the 30s where is the left now? A victim of amnesia? The right has learned its lesson. The left has forgotten its lesson.

Pity.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 6:01 PM

M. Simon, you aren't maling new history, you are just repeating the old history, over and over again.
Franco winning was good for Spain? Nobody is buying that. Until Franco died, Spain was a poor and illiterate dictatorship. Bur there are no doubt some rightwingers there who long for the old days. Cultural warriors who hate modern Spain, with all of it's money and freedom. Yeah bring back Franco. Sheesh!

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 6:16 PM

Yes Franco was good for Spain. He unified the country and kept it from going Communist.

Spain was still suffering from the Napoleonic wars - guerrilla wars tend to fragment countries. Franco kept the lid on and set the stage for the next step. Just as the authoritarians in Taiwan and South Korea set the stage for the next step.

BTW you need to engage with me not your stereotype of me.

Stability is a precursor of economic advancement. The way you tell the good authoritarians from bad ones is what happens afterwards. Do they eventually leave the scene to a more republican form of government? Or does chaos and internecine warfare return.

BTW I favor small government. Democrats and the left (and all too many Republicans) favor big government. If a real strongman comes to power are we in more danger with a small government or a big one?

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 7:05 PM

M. Simon, Franco untited Spain? That is sheer madness. Spain was the poorest, most illiterate country in Western europe thanks to him.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 7:19 PM

Yogi,

Mein Kampf is still a best seller in the Middle East. What do you propose to do about it?

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 7:20 PM

I'll make a gentleman's wager with you that the combined sales of MEIN KAMPF are higher in the US, Canada, Britain, and Australia than in all of the Muslim countries. What are YOU going to do about that?

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 7:50 PM

Yogi,

I'm currently living on a very limited budget.

However, if you have reputable figures - not just print runs but where the books are actually sold, I'll do a blog post here on it.

Post your results here or at any of my posts on this blog. I'll get a notification.

BTW are you familiar with the history of the Mufti of Jerusalem during WW2? He raised two divisions of SS troops to aid in Jew killing. The Austrian Corporal didn't use them in battle because they were not good fighters.

Also, it may be hard to get reliable figures on the number of MKs printed in Arabic.

BTW the Corporal figured his book would do well because of Islamic pre-dispositions.

====

I may do a post on whatever you find in any case, but I promise if it goes your way I'll post.

Why am I so confident? Well, I did some research on the Islamic side a couple of years ago. The book is consistently in the top ten. in so far as the numbers can be trusted.

==

Here is a tit bit (I love British slang) from the wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

In the United Kingdom, Mein Kampf is readily available and sells 3,000 copies annually [10].

Translated into Arabic, the book has been widely distributed in the Arab-Muslim world from the 1930s to the present.

In Turkey, the book is freely available and a Turkish edition was reported to be a bestseller in Turkey in March 2005, selling over 100,000 copies in two months.[11]

In Indonesia the book is available in Indonesian language.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 8:54 PM

From the wiki:

In the United States, the book can be found at almost any community library and can be bought, sold, and traded from many websites like Amazon.com and Borders Book Store. The U.S. government seized the copyright during the Second World War as part of the Trading with the Enemy Act and in 1979, Houghton Mifflin, the U.S. publisher of the book, bought the rights from the government. More than 15,000 copies are sold a year.[10]

===

100,000 in two months in Turkey is going to beat 3,000 a year in the UK + 15,000 a year in the US. And Turkey is only a part of the ME.

I think you are going to be on the losing side on this one.

BTW did you read the 3 links I suggested?

=======

I read MK when I was a kid. Library copy.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 8:58 PM

I'll concede that one to you. A lot of Muslims seem to like Hitler, and he was a big admirer of Islam. Not the religion itself, just their method of spreading the word during the Crusades.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 9:07 PM

Re: Franco.

It was poor, illiterate and factionalized before Franco.

After Franco it was just poor and illiterate.

Franco damped down domestic strife. A precondition for economic advancement.

Really. You should read Spanish history post Napoleon. The guerrilla war against Napoleon fractured society. In fact the ETA is a left over from that conflict. Almost 200 years now. Talk about blowback.

Just as the guerrilla war against the Austrian Corporal in France fractured that country. Remember the days when a French government was lucky to last a year? I do.

"Strategy" by B.H.L. Hart has a few things to say on the subject. Ever read it?

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 9:08 PM

From 2005,

But since January, the book has sold more than 50,000 copies and is number four on the best-seller list drawn up by the D&R bookstore chain.

"'Mein Kampf' has always been a sleeper, a secret best-seller," said Oguz Tektas of Mefisto editions, one of several publishing houses to re-release the book Hitler wrote while in jail in 1925. "We took it out of the closet for purely commercial reasons." His company's sole aim, he stressed, was "to make money," which they did by slashing the cover price.

"Mein Kampf," published by about a dozen companies over the years, always sold at a fairly steady annual rate of about 20,000 copies at some 20 New Turkish Lira ($15) a copy.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/005409.php

Obviously good numbers are going to be hard to come by. The weight is on my side so far.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 9:13 PM

I read the links. Love the idea of nuclear fusion. Cheap, clean energy is THE most important technology to be developed. Yet another reason to dislike this administration. They are only interested in oil, or as a last resort coal. Neither are acceptable over the long haul.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 9:14 PM

OK. You concede that one.

Now what do you think we should do about it and the Koran which preaches Muslim world domination?

BTW I have posting privileges here:

http://www.reformislam.org/

Which is the home site of Muslims Against Sharia. So anti-Islam I'm not. I'm also a regular correspondent with Ali Eteraz. You should look him up.

I'm just against Muslims with world domination aspirations. You know the guys who take the Koran and Hadiths literally.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 9:27 PM

Yogi,

If all this administration wants is oil how in the heck did they let the US Navy fund the Bussard Fusion project with a promise of $200 million follow on if the research project called WB-7 is successful?

You seem like a bright person open to reason or I wouldn't bother with you.

However, I think your world view is stuck in stereotypes.

Right now oil is the lifeblood of civilization. It has to be protected until we have something else.

BTW there are a lot of rightwingers working with me on the fusion project and a smattering or two of KOS Kids. Seriously

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/12/24/01048/939/153/425980

Roger and I agree on almost nothing about politics, or geopolitics. Yet we are in close co-operation to make fusion happen. Our goal is 3 to 5 years.

M. Simon   ·  January 1, 2008 9:40 PM

M. Simon, there is no stereotyping involved, I know exactly what kind of person George Bush is. Those secret energy meetings in 2001 were all about starting a war in Iraq. There were plans drawn up by Clinton in late 2000 to go into Afghanistan and take out Bin Laden. Bush nixxed them immediately upon taking office. WHY? It's the oil. It may be the life blood of our economy, but we still don't have the right to go to war and take take control of their resources. If my family is running out of food, do I have a right to occupy your house, a take yours?
BTW when you say you are working on this project, I assume you mean you are blogging about it. Either way it will NEVER come about if a Republican wins the White House in 2008. NEVER! EVER! So if you are serious about this. You absoluitely must renounce the Republican Party, the sooner the better. Do you honestly believe for a nano-second that BushCo wants to use tax dollars to lower the cost of oil?

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 10:12 PM

A pre-emptive strike. After reading this, how can any reasonable American NOT be outraged by the stubborn incompetency of this administration?
>
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/clarke%20memo.pdf

YogiBarrister   ·  January 1, 2008 10:27 PM

There were plans drawn up by Clinton in late 2000 to go into Afghanistan and take out Bin Laden. Bush nixxed them immediately upon taking office. WHY? It's the oil. It may be the life blood of our economy, but we still don't have the right to go to war and take take control of their resources.

Yeah OK. So why first thing after 9/11 did we do Afghanistan?

Why not Iraq first?

Your theory makes no sense.

And if we did Iraq for ownership of the oil (as opposed to access at market prices) why aren't we hauling it away? And why are gas prices so high. Wouldn't the nefarious Bushco want to keep prices low as a "war dividend"?

Really. Read the links I provided. Done mostly by an oil geologist and a little by me. He is a guy who by interest tracks what is going on with oil in the world. He is another of us rarities. A pro war libertarian. Except for the war he is more libertarian than Ron Paul.

Really. Bushco has no interest in stealing the oil from Iraqis. Or any one else.

There are two important points. Oil should go to build up the countries that own it. It should not go to supporting terrorists.

Yeah. I know. The Saudis. All I can say is: one or two battles at a time is all we can do. Iraq has the advantage of location (read the damn links) and Saddam was one damn son of a bitch and the society was more secular than most in the region making the conversion to self government easier.

I mean really. Look at the region. Who is doing most of the killing and dying? The same people. I don't know about you, but my humanitarian impulses say that Saddam and his sons filled mass graves and that putting a stop to that was a good thing.

Look at what we did for the Kurds. That was a good thing. Look at how we abandoned the Marsh Arabs. That was a bad thing. We have continued to support the Kurds and reversed our mistake with the Marsh Arabs. All to the good by my way of thinking.

And now most of Iraq has turned against Al Q. Why? They were mostly killing their fellow religionists.

BTW Bush's foreign policy instincts said no nation building. That was my attitude too. Check out campaign 2000 (I voted for Harry Browne). 9/11 changed his mind. It changed mine. So now after getting clobbered on 9/11 we are following the logic of the Clarke memo and you are mad at Bushco.

Makes no sense.

Here is more to add to your reading list:

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2004/11/origins-of-islamic-rage.html

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2006/09/alpha-male-problem.html

So I ask again. MK is very popular in the ME. What do you propose doing about it?

I'm going to assume from you nik that you are a lawyer. How did your logic get so bad? Or is it just about making your case with what ever facts and arguments you can muster?

M. Simon   ·  January 2, 2008 2:43 AM

Yogi,

No. I'm not just blogging about the fusion project.

I'm actually designing an open source reactor. Check out:

IEC Fusion Technology blog.

I have been told by some military people interested in the project that the above blog is the premier source on the 'net for getting people up to speed on the technology and physics involved.

In addition I'm very well connected with a number of people inside and outside the project as well as with members of the Bussard family. The US Navy wants this very badly. The Air Force is interested. Congress is set to vote massive funds for it if the WB-7 experiments are successful and the interest in Congress is bi-partisan.

You also might find this of interest:

http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/index.php

I'm a moderator there.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Hate has clouded your mind.

Let me add that a number of people have said that currently I'm one of the top five engineers in the field.

Go here and search on my name:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/printer-friendly.asp?tid=5367&mid=

and if you want to get an account and have your say there here is a link:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5367&start=1921&posts=1922

Look at the top of the page.

Really. You have no idea.

M. Simon   ·  January 2, 2008 11:08 AM

Yogi,

No. I'm not just blogging about the fusion project.

I'm actually designing an open source reactor. Check out:

IEC Fusion Technology blog.

I have been told by some military people interested in the project that the above blog is the premier source on the 'net for getting people up to speed on the technology and physics involved.

In addition I'm very well connected with a number of people inside and outside the project as well as with members of the Bussard family. The US Navy wants this very badly. The Air Force is interested. Congress is set to vote massive funds for it if the WB-7 experiments are successful and the interest in Congress is bi-partisan.

You also might find this of interest:

http://www.talk-polywell.org/bb/index.php

I'm a moderator there.

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Hate has clouded your mind.

Let me add that a number of people have said that currently I'm one of the top five engineers in the field.

Go here and search on my name:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/printer-friendly.asp?tid=5367&mid=

and if you want to get an account and have your say there here is a link:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=5367&start=1921&posts=1922

Let me say that the above site is monitored and your words will have some influence. Chris (the moderator) has discussed some very interesting things with me by e-mail. A word to the wise ought to be sufficient.

Really. You have no idea.

M. Simon   ·  January 2, 2008 11:12 AM

Another bit of amusement for your edification.

The comments are especially good.

http://powerandcontrol.blogspot.com/2007/10/jam-it-down-their-throats.html

M. Simon   ·  January 2, 2008 11:40 AM

I'm the hater? This is coming from someone who said Franco was good for Spain. Let me tell you my friend. Because all of those social democrats you HATE, now control Spain and the EU, it means they, not you, will be the first to discover a way to produce nuclear fusion. You and your fellow travelers from the right have dumbed down our public school system to the point where we can't compete in the sciences. Your side wants to teach creationism for crying out loud! Exactly how will it be possible for an American who is taught that garbage going to be able produce nuclear fusion?
One other thing. All the research so far about nuclear fusion shows that it's not feasable in the near future. Any evidence to the contrary is based on phony lab results. You aren't just scamming the government out of our hard earned tax dollars are you?

YogiBarrister   ·  January 2, 2008 1:13 PM

Yogi,

I get it. All the conventional wisdom in 1895 that heavier than air flight for significant distances was impossible were right and the Wright brothers were just scamming the government (as many at the time claimed).

However, I defer to your genius. Please state your objections and I'll see if I can give you answers.

BTW what do you intend to do about MK being a best seller in the ME?

M. Simon   ·  January 2, 2008 3:52 PM

M. Simon, I don't intend to do anything about the sales of Mein Kampf in the Middle East. Maybe Nato should give Turkey the boot and accept Israel in its place.
Now that I've sttled that, how do you intend to atone for your vote in 2000? You voted for a man who did not know Musharraf's name. You helped bring about THE SINGLE GREATEST disaster ever to befall our beloved country. Don't you even care about the US? Why do you have such contempt for the Constitution? Why do you blast Jay Grodner for his lack of ethics but defend a criminal like Alberto Gonzales? What is echoing through that rightwing mind of yours when you obssess on an act of vandalism while blithely ignoring the undermining of The Bill of Rights?

Yogi Barrister   ·  January 2, 2008 11:49 PM

Say I thought all you liberals were against that Mein Kampf stuff. You know. Spain, The Abraham Lincoln Brigade, and all that.

Shame you giving up on your liberal principles. I was under the impression liberals were made of sterner stuff. Guess not.

Take back my 2000 vote? Why? Bush is President. Saddam and his rapist sons are dead. Facts which I approve of. Har.

M. Simon   ·  January 2, 2008 11:59 PM

Be sure to get someone right over to check out this guy's counter tops and report back.

He may be the scum of the earth for all I know, but we don't know. We just know what has gone viral from a wingnut blog site. Including someone's business and home addresses, phone numbers, and e-mail address.

Along with lots of suggestions for ways to stalk, harass, and hurt him.

I take it back about who's the bigger sleaze here.

sobeit   ·  January 3, 2008 1:53 AM

M. Simon said:

"The felony indictment of Grodner is an indication. All we know for sure is that Grodner keyed the car. He admitted that by offering to pay the deductible. The rest is he said/she said."


He's been charged with a misdemeanor. If you can show differently, please do. He didn't admit to anything, and if you can show that he did please do. Offer of a token payment is an admission of nothing, and often just a way to get rid of a nuisance; otherwise no one would ever settle a lawsuit.


But you're right that it's all he said/he said.

sobeit   ·  January 3, 2008 2:02 AM

What other people do is not under my control Sobe.

You will note that all I posted was his business info. So those who do not wish to do business with him may act accordingly.

You will be gratified to know that your hero Jay has shut down all business avenues of communication with his person. I have no idea what his personal number is nor do I care. Nor do I give a crap about where he lives. Despite the fact that I could find out with a couple of clicks.

The dude has made the Chicago Trib.

When I first posted this, Google had about 1,600 hits for Mr. Jay. Day after it was 3,000. Now it is up to 6,000.

I'm sure he finds all the publicity gratifying.

Ya see. I'm a 'Nam veteran and I remember how we got treated. The shoe is on the other foot. We have genteel ways of spitting back.

You have problems with policy? Take it up with Congress. They control the purse strings. Leave the men and women of the military alone.

This is one of those cases where he got what he deserved. An object lesson.

pour l'encourager les autres

Capiche?

M. Simon   ·  January 3, 2008 2:10 AM

This is wonderful information about google. I really appreciate your efforts to bring this information to us.

Cannot find in google? ask bhau!   ·  January 3, 2008 5:12 AM

I like what I have read from you,Simon. This Yogi person needs to find a new rock. He is not interested in learning. I am, however! I like the nuclear fusion stuff...gonna pass the links on to my better half, as he like that stuff, too.

defendusa   ·  January 3, 2008 7:31 AM

It's unclear to me whose insurance company was to pay for it.

The lawyer's liability insurance should cover it -- and with luck, that's the same company that carries his malpractice. They will make him pay for this for the next ten years.

The Marine should turn it over to his insurance company, subrogate the claim to them, get his car fixed, and let the insurance company chase the lawyer's company. He should ask his insurance company to keep him posted.

The Marine ought to write to the Illinois Bar Association's ethics committee, asking for sanctions.

Court proceedings may continue in the Marine's absence. There is no reason whatsoever that he needs to be there.

There is also the issue of torts.

A lawyer's actions as a vandal are contrary to ethical canons in most states. We are held to higher standards than ordinary citizens.

Ed Darrell   ·  January 3, 2008 10:42 AM

BillT wrote "I wasn't making an excuse for the lawyer m.simon. I was only asking a simple question that is not covered in the initial story. They say he backed his car down the road to snag a parking spot rather than walk a few steps. Something must have pissed off the key perp making him want to key the car"

. The original story at Blackfive most certainly did mention the reverse down the street, AND a report that Grodner directly told the marine thought he could use his DOD plates (very silly, they were not DOD plates) to get away with with anything, the clear implication being the marine thought he could get away with backing down the street because off his military plates...and Grodner cursed and abused the marine at length, sharing his opinion of the military.

It's clear that Grodner was upset about the backing up, AND who did the backing up, as he doesn't like the military, and thinks they use deference gained by virtue of their service, to "get away" with irritating civilians and taking shortcuts when others have to go the long way.
What is shocking here, as there are many stupid schmoes in the world who would act out, is who GRODNER is. He's an attorney. He has a duty to act lawfully, and never resort to criminal acts to avenge percieved injustice, but legal means only. He could have snapped a picture of the marine's car, or asked for apology, or simply said "I dissapprove of you". He could have found out the soldiers name and said "he gets away with stuff using his plates". He could have reported the driving infraction to authorities or blogged about it, or called the marine
s superior officer. He could have....let it go. Instead, he took a hard object and damaged personal property to the tune of $2400.oo. This is not acceptable, and there is no acceptable motive plausible in this case, if there ever could be one.

FYI, If there was a dispute about the parking spot per se, he didn't mention it, and FWIW, Grodner's condos have interior parking for residents.

SarahW   ·  January 3, 2008 12:25 PM

Sarah,

Backing a 100 ft down a one way street in Chicago for a parking space is not an unknown occurrence. I lived in the city myself for about 15 years and practiced such a maneuver a few times a year at least.

These days I live in Rockford, where the need for parallel parking is almost unknown. When you have to parallel park you usually have a foot or two to spare. When I lived in Chicago a foot to spare was considered a big space. Needless to say my skilz are no longer as mad as they used to be.

M. Simon   ·  January 3, 2008 12:43 PM

I love Chicago, and it will love me, as I come from tight- parallel park on a steep slopeville. But I do often wish for one of those magical sideways parking cars.

We may never know all that was eating at meatspace vigilante Grodner that day, but I suspect brain bugs.

SarahW   ·  January 3, 2008 12:57 PM

M. Simon:

I guess intellectual honesty is not a classical value here.

I said the guy may be scum for all I know (I don't and neither do you), but if I objectto vigilantism that makes him my "hero." Watch out, tactics like that reveal a lack of substance in your argument.

You congratulate yourself for ONLY posting his business info along with suggestions that people contact him. Because .... ? Then here's the tipoff:

"Might I also suggest having a look at what other Black Five commenters have recommended?"

Which comments do include his home information, along with suggestions for harassment and physical violence.

So much for the ol' clean hands argument.

Why should I be "gratified" that he has had to disconnect his phones, shut down his e-mail, and possibly go into hiding? This is evidently the result you hoped for.

So much for taking the high ground.

sobeit   ·  January 3, 2008 1:54 PM

itbeso,

Obviously you haven't kept up. Black Five took down all the personal contact info.

In addition you are probably unaware that your hero Mr. Jay was disciplined by the Bar and the Illinois courts for fraud against the court and not properly representing his clients. Your kind of lawyer no doubt.

I'd suggest you go to his offices on La Salle street in case you need that kind of representation. One classy guy. Mr. Jay.

From what I can tell it seems like getting in trouble with the law for what appears to be an act of vandalism by him is just a sideline to his main business.

I hope he hears of your support. I'm sure he will consider it an honor.

M. Simon   ·  January 3, 2008 2:23 PM

Let me add that of this posting our man Mr. Jay now has 8,200+ Google hits.

I'd say he was moving up in the world.

M. Simon   ·  January 3, 2008 2:26 PM

And what have you got against me advertising Mr. Jay's legal services?

It is the kind of advertising money can't buy. Word of mouth. Given all the bad publicity it would seem he could use all the help he can get.

Sadly he has disconnected his phones and taken down his www site. That is no way to do business.

M. Simon   ·  January 3, 2008 2:31 PM

M. Simon:

The personal information was up when you linked to the site. As were/are the suggestions for stalking, harassment, and hurt.

Re the rest of your post: see, that's why your argument comes off as so lame.

sobeit   ·  January 3, 2008 2:34 PM

Mr. sobe,

You will note that I specifically said that only legal means of addressing Mr. Jay's actions should be taken despite some folk's inclination otherwise. In the original post. You will note that in Blck Five's comments a number of legal means were suggested.

It is the internet. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff. I gave instructions on how that might be done. Evidently you have trouble with reading comprehension.

My condolences.

M. Simon   ·  January 3, 2008 2:42 PM

Sobeit, what vigilantism?
The only vigilante here is Grodner.

SarahW   ·  January 3, 2008 3:10 PM

Simon, it occurs to me I could clarify that I don't man to imply Sgt. McNulty broke any traffic rules at all, (the reversing is a legal manuever if conditions allow it to be done safely), only that Grodner seemed to be alluding to this when the marine confronted him and Grodner responded.

Moreover, it does not necessarily follow, that Grodner was ACTUALLY bothered by the backing-up, it may only have drawn his notice.

The cornered Grodner, who had just been caught letting his aggressive impulses run free across the Sgt.'s property, may simply have been using whatever pretext available to justify himself.

He may well have seen an opportunity to "punish" a member of the military.

However, he may be the sort, or ALSO the sort, who gives the evil eye to well-kept expensive automobiles, especially should he detect some fastidiousness on the part of the owner, and likes to wreck what he can't have, or what he thinks is highly valued by another which he can destroy - or just enjoys ruining the day of someone he percieves as thinking they are a hot-shot.

Myself, I think it's clear Grodner viewed the well-kept car and military tags as a signs arrogance (though few others would), and because of some defect of mind or character, indulged his own feelings of affront and aggression by digging a key into someone elses paint.

Anonymous   ·  January 3, 2008 3:42 PM

Simon, it occurs to me I could clarify that I don't man to imply Sgt. McNulty broke any traffic rules at all, (the reversing is a legal manuever if conditions allow it to be done safely), only that Grodner seemed to be alluding to this when the marine confronted him and Grodner responded.

Moreover, it does not necessarily follow, that Grodner was ACTUALLY bothered by the backing-up, it may only have drawn his notice.

The cornered Grodner, who had just been caught letting his aggressive impulses run free across the Sgt.'s property, may simply have been using whatever pretext available to justify himself.

He may well have seen an opportunity to "punish" a member of the military.

However, he may be the sort, or ALSO the sort, who gives the evil eye to well-kept expensive automobiles, especially should he detect some fastidiousness on the part of the owner, and likes to wreck what he can't have, or what he thinks is highly valued by another which he can destroy - or just enjoys ruining the day of someone he percieves as thinking they are a hot-shot.

Myself, I think it's clear Grodner viewed the well-kept car and military tags as a signs arrogance (though few others would), and because of some defect of mind or character, indulged his own feelings of affront and aggression by digging a key into someone elses paint.

SarahW   ·  January 3, 2008 3:43 PM

Simon, it occurs to me I could clarify that I don't man to imply Sgt. McNulty broke any traffic rules at all, (the reversing is a legal manuever if conditions allow it to be done safely), only that Grodner seemed to be alluding to this when the marine confronted him and Grodner responded.

Moreover, it does not necessarily follow, that Grodner was ACTUALLY bothered by the backing-up, it may only have drawn his notice.

The cornered Grodner, who had just been caught letting his aggressive impulses run free across the Sgt.'s property, may simply have been using whatever pretext available to justify himself.

He may well have seen an opportunity to "punish" a member of the military.

However, he may be the sort, or ALSO the sort, who gives the evil eye to well-kept expensive automobiles, especially should he detect some fastidiousness on the part of the owner, and likes to wreck what he can't have, or what he thinks is highly valued by another which he can destroy - or just enjoys ruining the day of someone he percieves as thinking they are a hot-shot.

Myself, I think it's clear Grodner viewed the well-kept car and military tags as a signs arrogance (though few others would), and because of some defect of mind or character, indulged his own feelings of affront and aggression by digging a key into someone elses paint.

SarahW   ·  January 3, 2008 3:47 PM

Jay Grodner = Vandalism
Alberto Gonzales = Perjury, obstruction of justice, Hatch Act violations, violator of FISA laws, Geneva Code violations(AKA as war crimes), possible treason.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 3, 2008 4:10 PM

Well, by all means, Yogi, go ahead and publish Gonzales public contact information, discuss his public and private reputation, and blog your heart out.

I don't exactly see why that means Jay Grodner is fit to practice law.

Sarahw   ·  January 3, 2008 5:58 PM

Click, click, check wind direction, ask spotter for final, click, click, focus, stop breathing, squeeze slack, wait for the pulse pause, think through the target/will the round..to . 'BANG'

Wait...........wait.........target.......

Easy to spot the asshat in this crowd.

Yo, your 'dog' has been proverbially walked, not to mention verbally heeled.

Semper Fi,

Oiao   ·  January 3, 2008 7:03 PM

"Look at how we abandoned the Marsh Arabs. That was a bad thing."

Do you have a link that talks about this? I thought we'd been nothing but good to the marsh Arabs. I'm not saying you're wrong - I just would like to be informed.

Kevin   ·  January 3, 2008 8:10 PM

Oops. The previous comment was meant for M. Simon.

Kevin   ·  January 3, 2008 8:33 PM

I am curious as to the atmospheric conditions on a planet where keying someone's car is, in any way, justifiable.

Jay R Grodner, enjoy your blogswarm, sir.

Anonymous   ·  January 3, 2008 8:34 PM

Just like in the days leading up to WWII, American rightwingers are only making the problem worse.

The Rightwingers in the days leading up to WWII were appeasers and isolationists. Some of the more rabid ones admired Hitler.

So who are the appeasers and isolationists these days? Did a neo-con invite the lunatic head of Iran to visit Columbia University? Which side tries to "understand" and sometimes expresses sympathy for terrorists and suicide bombers? And thinks some of the most noble suicide bombers are the ones who blow up Jews?

Yes, I am reminded of pre-WWII days when I read the news too. But I draw somewhat different conclusions than you do, Yogi.

Donna V.   ·  January 3, 2008 8:40 PM

Yogi Barrister and sobeit leave me with despair for our legal profession. I feel creepy just reading the way their minds work. How in the world can we know that when we need a lawyer, we can find one with honor and decency? Perhaps by making sure he is a Marine.

RedErick   ·  January 3, 2008 9:11 PM

Well RedErick, let's hope you get one a little more willing to rely on objective evidence and a little less willing to argue based on personal prejudices than some of the posters at this site.

sobeit   ·  January 3, 2008 10:05 PM

RedErick, I'm not a lawyer, I'm a retired parole officer.
Oaio, I assume you were directing that comment to me. I will bet you all the money in the world I can beat you in a shooting contest with a .22, a shotgun, or my Sig Sauer. Grow up little man and start acting like a responsible adult. Stop voting for and defending criminal behavior. If you are really a marine, then you made an oath to uphold the Constitution, same as the one I took.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 3, 2008 11:49 PM

Sarah W, I never said Grodner was fit or unfit to practice law. What I was implying is that if the appropriate punishment for Grodner is to be disbarred, the the appropriate punishment for Gonzales is life in prison. That's assuming he had nothing to do with the outing of Valerie Plame. If he was involved, then tell me, what should the punsihment for treason during a time of war be?
Do you rightwing dolts have any idea of how creepy you sound. You have oaio, posting death fantasies about me. What a vulger, silly, little man!

YogiBarrister   ·  January 3, 2008 11:59 PM

M. Simon, interesting website, Classical values without class. Is oaio typical of the quality of posts you get here?

YogiBarrister   ·  January 4, 2008 12:05 AM

M. Simon, interesting website, Classical values without class. Is oaio typical of the quality of posts you get here?

Oh no. Most of the site is much worse. This is the best I can do. You wouldn't like it here at all.

Proof? You keep coming back.

I put it down to masochism on your part. Are you seeing a doctor?

M. Simon   ·  January 4, 2008 1:40 AM

Kevin,

Google - Marsh Arabs abandoned.

Here is one from 2003

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,,1066280,00.html

If that doesn't suit you there are many others.

M. Simon   ·  January 4, 2008 2:00 AM

Parole dude. Correct your dyslexia when you address me by my screen name in the future.

Oiao   ·  January 4, 2008 3:36 AM

M. Simon, YogiBarrister - BEHAVE! You guys have been doing a very, very rare thing - an honest, open, link rich, give and take debate. Don't let it slide into strawmen and personal insults.

You may not convince each other of your particular points of view, but there is a larger audience enjoying the show and taking notes. Please, keep it up. It is interesting, entertaining and very informative. I just wish the primary debates were this in-depth.

Please, ignore the ignorant and continue the discussion without the insults. I'd be happy to moderate, if you wish, because this type of debate is what I love. As a matter of fact, you two should open up a new blog and banter there. I'll even go to the trouble of hosting it and moderating out the idiotic comments that don't forward the debate. Two guys with the intelligence and integrity to address the substance of each other's arguments is too good to let languish in the comments.

Chris Farley   ·  January 4, 2008 10:16 AM

Chris, thanks, M. Simon seems OK im my book. Now that this link has dropped of Salon's Blog Report, I doubt there will be many more mainstream Americans stumbling onto it.
My final points before I leave you. I'm pretty sure Black Five was ordered to remove Grodner's address and some of the more inflammatory comments from their website. You can see why the military would not want active members of the service engaging in warfare with American civilians. Less disciplined minds like oiao might get whipped up into a frenzy and do something that would reflect poorly on them. BTW, oiao, even if you really are a marine, you shouldn't festoon your ignorant, hateful posts with a Semper Fi, you are tarnishing the reputation of The Corps. I guess the difference between a rightwing marine and someone who worked in the prison system is that he fantasizes about killing people who offend or disagree with him, I fantasize about incarcerating criminals, especially arrogant criminals who feel they are above the law.

YogiBarrister   ·  January 4, 2008 12:57 PM

Chris,

I am the "owner of this post" i.e. I have permission to blog at this site.

If yogi wants to insult me, my commenters, or my positions. Fine.

I'm an old usenet hand and can flame without resorting to four letter words. A sport I rather enjoy. If he wants to ask questions and get answers I'm down with that too.

In addition I made my position on posting business contact info plain in the post and several times in the comments.

I'm still waiting for what the proud supporter of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade thinks should be done about Mein Kampf in the Middle East.

Republicans were wrong in the '30s - blinded by anti-communism. The Ds are wrong on this war. Blindness is not a permanent taint on one party nor is vision a permanent feature of another.

I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

Let me add that the Rs were not totally helpful during WW2. Although Dewey's protection of Magic/Ultra was very noble.

The Ds were not too good on WW3. And now we are into WW4.

It is a shame that some folks who claim to stand up for the right are more interested in party.

Now I agree that the war has not been fought well. Until recently. Lincoln didn't do such a bang up job for a number of years either. Common in wars.

M. Simon   ·  January 4, 2008 1:06 PM

M. Simon:

A small bit of trivia that not many know, apropos of nothing but...well, passing along trivia.

Alan Cranston was the only Senator to have been sued by Hitler:

"Some historians have speculated that a wider reading [of 'Mein Kampf] prior to Hitlerís rise to power (or at least prior to the outbreak of World War II) might have alerted the world to the dangers Hitler would pose to peace in Europe and to the Holocaust that he would pursue. An abridged English translation was produced before World War II. However, the publisher removed some of the more anti-Semitic and militaristic statements. The publication of this version caused Alan Cranston, who was an American reporter for UPI in Germany (and later a federal U.S. Senator from California), to publish his own abridged and annotated translation. Cranston believed this version to more accurately reflect the contents of the book. In 1939, Cranston was sued by Hitlerís publisher for copyright infringement, and a Connecticut judge ruled in Hitlerís favor. However, by the time the publication of Cranstonís version was stopped, 500,000 copies had already been sold.[4]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mein_Kampf

sobeit   ·  January 4, 2008 2:32 PM

Th real solution for Sgt. McNuty is to contact JAG in his outfit either through his Sgt. Major of Adujant and explain the situation. Jag will represent the Sgt. in the case.

JeremyJetpilot, Capt.USMC (ret.)

JeremyJetpilot   ·  January 4, 2008 5:21 PM

Th real solution for Sgt. McNuty is to contact JAG in his outfit either through his Sgt. Major of Adujant and explain the situation. Jag will represent the Sgt. in the case.

JeremyJetpilot, Capt.USMC (ret.)

JeremyJetpilot   ·  January 4, 2008 5:21 PM

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