Gay marriage! For homonormative transsexuals only!

A California group called Vote Yes Marriage is circulating a ballot petition which purports to eliminate the possibility of same sex marriage. What intrigues me is the way it defines man and woman:

Only marriage between one man and one woman is valid or recognized in California, whether contracted in this state or elsewhere. A man is an adult male human being who possesses at least one inherited Y chromosome, and a woman is an adult female human being who does not possess an inherited Y chromosome. Neither the Legislature nor any court, government institution, government agency, initiative statute, local government, or government official shall abolish the civil institution of marriage between one man and one woman, or decrease statutory rights, incidents, or employee benefits of marriage shared by one man and one woman, or require private entities to offer or provide rights, incidents, or benefits of marriage to unmarried individuals, or bestow statutory rights, incidents, or employee benefits of marriage on unmarried individuals. Any public act, record, or judicial proceeding, from within this state or another jurisdiction, that violates this section is void and unenforceable. (Emphasis added.)
OK, for the record, I don't support the ordinance. Not only does it prohibit same sex marriage, it prohibits the "incidents" of marriage (a can of worms I've discussed before).

But this definition of man and woman is an interesting new wrinkle, and I don't think I've seen that written into one of these laws before. I'll try to follow out what this means before I lose what's left of my mind. Let's see:

  • men who have become women by changing their sex from male to female would only be allowed to marry women
  • women who have become men by changing their sex from female to male would only be allowed to marry men
  • Likewise, men who have not changed their sex would be forbidden from marrying men who have, but they would be allowed to marry female-to-male sex changes. And vice versa: women who have not changed their sex would be allowed to marry men who have changed their sex to female.

    So, like it or not, this ordinance would (if it gets on the ballot and passes) cause an instant role reversal of the present "heteronormative" situation. Right now, a man can marry a transsexual woman (a woman who who used to be a man), and such marriages are considered legal heterosexual marriages. If this passes, they'll become illegal homosexual marriages -- all "heteronormative" intentions of the couple notwithstanding.

    And after this passes, there would be created for the first time a protected species of lucky, legal gay couples in California. Think about it: any man in California who found a woman who had changed her sex to male could marry "her" -- even though both would look and act like men, and while they would be be visually undistiguishable from other gay male couples, they'd be permitted to marry for the first time under California law. Ditto for lesbians who want to marry; they need only find a post operative male-to-female willing to exchange vows.

    Transsexuals would be allowed to marry after their sex changes, but only in a homonormative manner.

    If you don't think it will happen, you don't know California.

    Just think. Virtual same sex marriage!

    Brought to you by the American Family Association, the Traditional Values Coalition, and a whole host of other, apparently pro-virtual gay marriage groups!

    (Um, this is satire, right? Will someone please let me know?)

    posted by Eric on 08.27.07 at 01:43 PM





    TrackBack

    TrackBack URL for this entry:
    http://classicalvalues.com/cgi-bin/pings.cgi/5444






    Comments

    "Satire"? Your posting, or the petition?

    I think not, in either case, although the petition has got a better shot.

    The (the petition and your analysis) do however make a pretty good demonstration of how bad laws with unintended consequences come to be.

    Larry Sheldon   ·  August 27, 2007 03:37 PM

    You left out hermaphrodites.

    Some of them get "sex changes" at birth.

    What if they were changed the "wrong" way?

    M. Simon   ·  August 27, 2007 06:19 PM

    Erm. Maybe sex changes for normal (not [pseudo-]hermaphrodites) should be disallowed then. Not that I am in favour of this.

    Basically, unlike some other animals, sex in humans is genetically determined. Like it or not, until you can grow your own set of genitals using a version of your own DNA (one with the opposite sex chromosome, obviously), you will never be otherwise, no matter how much SRS you undertake.

    There are countries that will not recognise SRS as changing your birth sex. I believe that should be the way, even if it does lead to absurd situations. But then, law at the fringes always leads to absurdities.

    Greg   ·  August 27, 2007 09:16 PM

    MS, the only way to know would be a chromosomal test as a prerequisite for a marriage license.

    Greg, I'm sure that the people drafted this initiative believe sex changes are wrong, but I doubt they thought it through. And even if they did, they can't very well disallow sex changes in the initiative, for that would run afoul of the California Constitution's prohibition in Article 2 section 8

    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/.const/.article_2

    (d) An initiative measure embracing more than one subject may not be submitted to the electors or have any effect.

    I still don't know whether to treat this as satire. It's certainly a form of surrealism.

    Anonymous   ·  August 27, 2007 09:53 PM

    The way I parse that is to specifically disallow any transgendered people any marriage. A male -> female would be a female with a Y; a female -> male would be a male without. Neither description fits their definition of man or woman.

    Boobah   ·  August 28, 2007 04:56 AM

    Boobah, the problem with that parsing is that it would create an entirely new class of people who are not allowed to marry at all, but who previously were, and as M. Simon reminds, includes people who never had sex change surgery. It also begs the question of what is meant by "male" ("adult male human being") and "female." There is no definition offered -- other than the reference to chromosomes. Is a man to be considered legally female for wearing a dress? For taking hormones? For considering himself "female"? For being castrated? Or only when he has a vagina constructed?

    The initiative is silent, and I think that advancing the argument that a "female human being" is not a "woman" but is nonetheless famale might very well cause the law to be declared unconstitutionally void for vagueness.

    Eric Scheie   ·  August 28, 2007 10:29 AM

    I just said that was how I parsed what they read. Quite frankly, to me the most likely explanation is that transgendered people never crossed the authors' minds. Given my biased and largely uninformed knowledge of the groups involved, it's also possible that making it illegal for the transgendered to marry was intentional.

    As far as defining male and female, they may be relying on definitions elsewhere in law, common and/or legislative.

    The real question is, I guess, are the authors intending there to be a difference between "men" and "male humans," or are they refining the (interchangeable) terms?

    Boobah   ·  August 28, 2007 05:38 PM

    If you think about it, there's really no such thing as a "sex change" or a "transgendered person". There are women who've consented to both a sort of infibulation and addition of bits; and there are men who've consented to castration and alteration of bits. But the chromosomes do determine sex, and they do not lie.

    What is disturbing is the lack of room under this law for people with chromosomal disorders.

    Maureen   ·  September 1, 2007 10:47 PM
    find airline flights   ·  September 4, 2007 04:01 PM
    student discount airline tickets   ·  September 4, 2007 04:01 PM

    Post a comment

    You may use basic HTML for formatting.





    Remember Me?

    (you may use HTML tags for style)



    September 2007
    Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
                1
    2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    9 10 11 12 13 14 15
    16 17 18 19 20 21 22
    23 24 25 26 27 28 29
    30            

    ANCIENT (AND MODERN)
    WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR


    Search the Site


    E-mail

    escheie_[AT]_yahoo_DOT_com




    Classics To Go

    Classical Values PDA Link

    What ancient form of execution would you LEAST prefer?
    Buried alive
    Crucifixion
    Flayed alive
    Scourged to death
    Stung/bitten to death by insects
    Slow disembowelment
    Roasted on grill
    Dragged from chariot
    Torn apart by wild beasts
    Rolled downhill inside spiked barrel
    Death of a thousand cuts
      
    Free polls from Pollhost.com


    Archives




    Recent Entries



    Links



    Alphecca (My Blogdaddy)



    Puff the Protector


    Andrew Sullivan

    Gays in Military Site

    Middle East Media Research Institute

    Gay Libertarian Site
    The Bitch Girls
    Join the NRA!


    SECOND AMENDMENT VIDEO!

    Shooters' Carnival

    Tammy Bruce
    Gun Owners of America
    goalogox.gif

    front_cover.jpg
    KerryCom.gif
    fighting101sSm.jpg
    David Hackworth
    ElectricVenom.com
    SgtStryker.com
    Hell In A Handbasket
    Matt Welch
    The Volokh Conspiracy
    Virginia Postrel
    PseudoPsalms
    The Light of Reason
    The Anger of Compassion
    Anger Management
    Dustbury.com
    Rachel Lucas
    Shadow Government
    reflections in d minor
    JustOneMinute
    Boone Country
    Catallarchy
    Roger L. Simon Button
    Agenda Bender
    Mike Silverman
    Steven Malcolm Anderson
    Walter in Denver
    Impearls
    Donald Sensing
    Howard Owens
    Loco Parentis
    imao15.jpg
    Colby Cosh
    VodkaPundit
    Radley Balko
    Dean's World
    The Queen of All Evil
    baldilocks
    Joe Gandelman
    Dave Tepper
    Begging to Differ
    Kesher Talk
    Jeff Jarvis
    Doc Searls
    Little Green Footballs
    Captain Ed
    Oh, That Liberal Media!
    ICANNfocus.org
    God of the Machine
    Sandefur's Freespace
    Wizbang
    Robert Prather
    LawPundit
    adrcircle.jpgThe Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
    Amygdala
    bilious young fogey
    MadLab
    On the Fritz
    why dave bergman is neat
    Skiplog
    Clowning Glory
    Dispatches from the Culture Wars
    Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon?
    Anti-Socialist Tendencies
    Of Interest
    WICKED THOUGHTS
    Setting The World To Rights
    doubleplusgood infotainment
    It Can't Rain All The Time
    Scrutineer
    Nick Danger, International Man of Mystery
    seldom sober
    TRITICALE
    Random Jottings
    Graham Lester
    point2point
    Shark Blog
    Gene Healy
    Discount Blogger
    Six Foot Pole
    Dodgeblogium
    Across the Atlantic
    The Imperialist Dog
    Lex Talionis
    Mind Of Mog
    Say Uncle
    CAMPVS MAWRTIVS
    res gestae dionysii
    Annika's Journal & Poetry
    A :{FRUSTRATED}: ARTIST
    Yet another weird SF fan
    Lincoln Cat
    The Meatriarchy
    Who is Ronald?
    Short Daddy
    Punch Drunk
    Mookie Riffic
    On The Third Hand
    MatthewEdgar.net
    ZenPundit
    Jennifer's History and Stuff
    blogcrit-button.gif
    argghhh!!!
    Modulator
    D.C. Thornton
    Centerfield
    Asymmetrical Information
    Airline Pilots Security Assn
    Relapsed Catholic
    PAPADOC
    Abraca-Pocus
    The Pryhills
    Winds of Change
    Daily Pundit
    The Speculist
    Regnum Crucis
    The Elfin Ethicist
    Classics in Contemporary Culture
    elephant-rabbits
    A Perfectly Cromulent Blog
    allied
    Parableman
    Southern Musings
    CALIFORNIA YANKEE
    Allen's Arena
    Ex-Gay Watch
    Jonno
    Michael Moore doesn't love me!
    Eschaton
    Clayton Cramer
    Letters From a Strip of Dirt
    Oliver Willis
    Hesiod Theogeny
    Dr Zen
    JunkYardBlog
    Orcinus
    Ideofact
    Letter from Gotham
    Oraculations
    INCITE
    Positive Liberty
    ALLAH IS IN THE HOUSE
    Tiny Little Lies
    My So-Called Penis
    Keith Devens
    Jason Holliston
    W(h)ine Country
    Straight White Guy
    Ken MacLeod
    Lawrence Lessig
    solomonia.com/blog/
    PaleoJudaica.com
    EdCone.com
    Common Sense and Wonder
    Who knew?
    Daily Howler
    James Landrith
    Chief Wiggles
    L.T. Smash
    damnum absque injuria
    Daniel W. Drezner
    OxBlog
    Reason of Voice
    Steven Den Beste
    Wonkette!
    Cranial Cavity
    Gibberish in Neutral
    DramaQueen
    vivalabloog
    Classics in Contemporary Culture
    The LLama Butchers
    flvbutton.gif
    HobbsOnLine
    ACIDMAN
    Sector 7-G
    Zogby Blog
    mtpolitics.net
    Horologium
    Civic Dialogues
    Practical Penumbra
    Right Wing News
    Stranger in a Strange Land
    Ambient Irony
    Tiger: Raggin' & Rantin'
    Read My Lips
    Jay Solo
    The Alliance
    The Smallest Minority
    Wrong Side of Happiness
    Wince and Nod
    One Little Victory
    Fishbucket
    suburban blight
    Sketches of Strain
    Boi from Troy
    Being American in T.O.
    Outside the Beltway
    One Fine Jay
    Bill and Kent's Place on the Web
    Burton Terrace
    This Book Stinks
    The Happy Carpenter
    Political Correctness Watch
    GREENIE WATCH
    Resource.full
    This Liberal"
    Brainville
    BLAMBLOG
    Ordinary Galoot
    QandO
    Josh Cohen
    Extra Ordinary Ideas
    brykMantra
    Croooow Blog
    Old Right
    commiewatch
    Yourishweb.jpg
    Proculian Meditations
    UggaBugga
    Dustin the No-Longer-Blogless
    Les Jones Blog
    Temporal Globe
    Postcards from Nowhere
    Tarazet
    Unfogged
    Synthstuff
    Riba Rambles
    Mitch Berg
    The National Debate
    scha-den-freu-de
    Ocean Guy
    Topic Exchange
    CELESTIAL OFFERINGS
    Texas Native
    Somewhere over the Rainbough
    Why read this?
    End NPR Bias
    Ace of Spades HQ
    Web Dawn
    GANGSTORIES
    Sheila Astray's Redheaded Ramblings
    Alan Sullivan (Seablogger)
    hobbyblog
    activistchat.com/blogiran/
    FuturePundit.com
    Tim Blair
    A Voyage To Arcturus
    HipperCritical
    BarlowFriendz
    Jihad Watch
    Kin's Kouch
    Bad Money
    The Campblog
    News Junkie Canada
    De Doc's Doings
    Bigwig
    Eject!Eject!Eject!
    Tom's Nap Room
    A Coon Cat's World
    The sexual adventures of Woodie and Peaches
    Crystalline Ceramics Web Resource
    Heh. Indeed.
    NakedVillainy.com
    Andrew David Chamberlain
    The Karmic Inquisition
    Adam Smith Institute Weblog
    Andrea Harris
    Hi. I'm Black
    Banana Oil
    Jim Miller on Politics
    Who Tends the Fires
    Ranck and File
    MOLOTOV COCKTAIL FRANK
    NOLI IRRITARE LEONES
    Miss O'Hara
    deadmaus
    Coffee With Rhoads
    robot guy
    Travelling Shoes
    Admiral Quixote's Roundtable
    danm.us
    The Argus
    Dissecting Leftism
    Dissecting Leftism -- OLD Site
    Aaron's cc
    Commentariat
    The Argus - Registan
    INDC Journal
    Pundit Ex Machina
    DeMythology
    Peppermint Tea
    Gilly's World
    Beyond the Black Hole
    La Shawn Barber"
    FREE IRAN NEWS button
    Perverse Access Memory
    Invisible Adjunct
    Photon Courier
    Intel Dump
    Junkscience.com
    The SmarterCop
    Laban Tall
    Banagor
    Peeve Farm
    Rand Simberg
    camedwards.com
    Kim du Toit
    Mrs. du Toit
    Dancing with Dogs
    Two--Four
    Heretical Ideas
    Astonished Head
    Outlandish Josh
    Central Oregon for Dean
    ghostofaflea.com
    The White Peril 白禍 (Sean Kinsell)
    www.blktlr.com
    Subterranean Bungalo
    DFMoore
    Dave Halliday
    Well Versed
    Qoheleth 60: Joel Moody's Repository
    quo vado
    jonrowe.blogspot.com
    yellopad
    Sticks of Fire
    Dissecting Leftism
    ByteMagick
    Blogs of War
    PRESTOPUNDIT
    Of Interest
    The Meatriarchy
    Bernhardt Varenius
    The Forager
    Miller?s Time
    Blogs of War
    painting to stay (?) sane
    Blue Goldfish | Surface
    Clowning Glory
    House of Payne International
    Last Chance Caf馬t;/a>
    Psychology of Leftism
    a_sdf
    CONSERVATISM/RIGHTISM
    Taylor & Company
    The Vicious Circle
    Leftists as Elitists
    Eye of the Storm
    A scratch area
    Wicked Thoughts
    Filtrat
    The Bayou City Perspective
    The Belfry Blogger
    Setting The World To Rights
    Ljonn.com
    Oddly Normal
    Varifrank
    Jamie Jamison on Technology
    GayPatriot
    A New York Escorts Confessions
    jamescalvin.com
    The Eleven Day Empire
    Dr. Rusty Shackleford
    Eric's Grumles Before The Grave
    Belmont Club
    Gumbo Pie
    BeldarBlog
    MooreThoughts
    Blind Adherence
    Last One Speaks
    Logic Monkey
    Bird's Eye View
    DIRTY WATER
    Forgadring
    precision-guided cowboy
    Punditmania
    Minor Thoughts
    Just Askin'
    HispaLibertas
    Let's Try Freedom
    Megan McArdle
    Ann Althouse
    Beautiful Atrocities
    Sean Hackbarth
    Power and Control
    Professor Bainbridge
    Power Line
    Dialogic
    Darleen's Place
    I'm N.O. Pundit!
    Done With Mirrors
    AMERICAN FUTURE
    CodeBlueBlog
    Gay Orbit
    Urthshu
    Zacht Ei
    Interested-Participant
    blake taylor
    The Anchoress
    Freespeech.com
    Spiked
    Decision '08 (Mark Coffey)
    White Lightning Axiom: Redux
    The Big Picture
    Rachel Lucas BEI
    John Cole
    Haight Speech
    evolution: on the loose
    Moderates of all Nations, Unite!
    Jeff Gannon
    THE GLEESON BLOGLOMERATE
    Pajama Pundits
    Centerpiece
    The Radical Centrist
    Lab-Tested
    FreedomSight
    AmbivaBlog
    evolution
    Marx & Friends in their own words
    Elective Application
    Religion Research Islam Blog
    YOUNGPUNDIT.COM
    {finding peace in the chaos}
    IQ & PC -- By Chris Brand
    Classics in Contemporary Culture
    Morse's Code
    A&W
    Bench Marx
    Julie Neidlinger
    Shades of Gray
    The Daily Lion: NeoLibertarianism on a Stick
    Miller's Time
    Centerpiece
    This Liberal
    Coming Anarchy
    Lay Lines
    that'sRich
    the blog eclectic
    booklore
    Yankee Madmen
    Jesusland Expatriate
    Amazing Motor Girls
    Spiced Sass
    Decline and Fall of Western Civilization
    Modern Crusader
    MaroonBlog
    Skriblerier, etc.
    I am partially fused with infinity
    Eros Colored Glasses
    Bill Peschel: The man comes around
    The Twins Tell the Truth
    wickens.ca
    The War of Ideas
    ConsterNations
    EaglesUp Blog
    Vitriolics Anonymous
    DIRTY WATER
    Mean Mr. Mustard 2.0
    EDUCATION WATCH
    THE RIGHT SCALE
    AIS Knight Hammer
    SOCIALIZED MEDICINE
    The Argus
    DON'T BE DUMB!
    Blue Goldfish | Surface
    GUN WATCH
    De Docs Institute for Memetic Engineering And Polymaths...
    Wordpress Test Weblog
    Kapowie Zone
    Political Theory: Weblogs
    You know, they say...
    all blogged down
    Harkonnendog
    Big Dirigible
    GeoPoliticalreview.com
    Coyote Blog
    Blog Retrofuturistic
    VietPundit
    JasonColeman.com
    Logical Meme
    Bloggledygook
    Discursive Recursions
    Bird's Eye View
    Right Wing Nut House
    ELEMENOHPEE
    Locusts and Honey
    Moonbattery
    The Everlasting Phelps
    Mythusmage Opines
    The Cassandra Page
    Of Arms & the Law
    The Daily Bork
    Strange Stuff
    Another Gay Republican
    Libertarian Man of Mystery
    Liberty Just In Case
    TalkLeft
    Joe's Dartblog
    Iowa Hawk
    The Common Room
    Darth Vader
    John C. A. Bambenek
    Gay Bipolar Republican
    Boxing Alcibiades
    Baby TrollBlog
    Strange Fictions
    Urban Hermit
    The Eye of Polyphemus
    Toe In The Water
    Bryan's Basement
    Fishkite
    Right on the Left Coast
    Beltway Buzz
    pike speak
    Scared Monkeys
    The Mudville Gazette
    Matt Sheffield
    Undercaffeinated
    Trey Jackson
    NashvilleFiles.com
    Moonbat Central
    Dust my Broom
    The Cliffs of Insanity
    Riding Sun
    The Modo Blog
    Philly Future
    philly
    Off In The Tall Weeds
    Doug Petch.Com
    Gays for Life
    the True Nature of Reality
    Spinning Clio
    Mike Huckabee President 2008
    A.E.Brain
    that rogueclassicist guy
    A M㯠Invisí¶¥l
    Constantly Risking Absurdity
    Laurence Simon
    Notes & Musings
    A World of Speculation
    Weird Events
    Pit Bull Wars
    New World Man
    Mark in Mexico
    The Palmetto Pundit
    All Things Jen(nifer)
    Generic Confusion
    Justus for All
    iHillary
    Michael Totten
    Don Surber
    Maggie's Farm
    Unpaid Punditry Corps
    The Counter Hippie
    Kicking On Doors
    FunnyBusiness
    Restless Mania
    Mark Tapscott
    nobody sasses a girl in glasses
    Letters from the Bostonian Exile
    The Education Wonks
    Diana Hseih
    just muttering
    Right-Wing of the Gods
    Michelle Malkin
    Inside Larry's Head
    Ballpoint Wren
    A Blog For All
    The Liberal Wrong
    American Outlook
    Splog Reporter
    From the Grand Stand
    Tinabell
    Affordable Housing Institute
    mudphud
    Living In The Past
    Searchlight Crusade
    Gus Van Horn
    Ian Schwartz
    One Billion Red Chinese and a Dog Named Liberty
    Suburban Bourgeois
    The Metropolis Times
    DR. HELEN
    Philadelphia AIDS Thrift
    Sir Humphrey's
    Birth Story
    The Simplest Thing
    Blue Star Chronicles
    One Stack Mind
    Cathy Young
    Neocon Express
    A A R D V A R K
    World Climate Report
    Apartment 604
    Yelling at the Windshield
    Kimdergarten/
    ShrinkWrapped
    The Bear Cave
    X marks the blogspot
    CARRY ON AMERICA
    Jim Rose
    Kiril, The Mad Macedonian
    Signal 94
    Pseudo-Polymath
    The International Libertarian
    Gates of Vienna
    California Sojourn
    The Liberty Papers
    Barcepundit
    A. Jacksonian
    Jon Swift
    Tim Maguire
    Three Sticks
    Asymmetric
    Dog Politics
    OregonGuy
    Little Miss Attila
    Buuuuurrrrning Hot
    AGENT BEDHEAD
    THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
    David Harsanyi
    Snowflakes in Hell
    Earnest Iconoclast
    Eternity Road
    Musings of the GeekWithA.45
    Total Survivalist Libertarian Rantfest
    Argue With Everyone Political Forum
    Nathan J. Winograd
    Assistant Village Idiot
    Parkway Rest Stop
    Grouchy Old Cripple
    Technicalities
    Coalition of the Swilling
    TigerHawk
    Mary Madigan
    Sad Old Goth
    Erica Sherman
    Joated

    Ezra Levant
    Kathy Shaidle
    Free Dominion
    Small Dead Animals
    Habitation of Justice
    GAYS DEFEND MARRIAGE
    IEC Fusion Technology Blog
    The Truth Laid Bear
    Socrates' Academy
    jpfoUSA.gif
    Armed and Dangerous

    SupportDenmarkSmall2EN.png
    holocausthp.jpg

    Vin Suprynowicz


    Tongue Tied
    Link to Samizdata - please save the button to your own 

server

    My Watergate Blog

    rhino_sm.jpg



    pj-button-04.gif

    The Neolibertarian Network

    BUMPERBANstupsm_1_.jpg



    Syndicate this site (XML)







    Blogroll Classical Values!

    Search Popdex:


    Pssst!

    Wanna get on the Classical Values blogroll?

    linkhead.gif Don?t bang your head!

    Please send me an email and let me know, because although I try to keep up, sometimes I have trouble finding every last link.



    Site Credits



    classicalvalues.com

    classicalvalues.com

    (Link buttons)