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May 11, 2005
Respect and other false flags
On top of anti-Republican prejudice noted before, I now see clear evidence of regional prejudice emanating from Dave Winer: We should return the favor and host an open blogging conference in a blue state, and import some of the south's most famous bloggers. Before the conference we should make sure that the most flamey left-wing bloggers are present, the people who posted in the comments on Dean For America, for example; and urge them to hurl insults at our southern brothers and sisters, while we sit back and enjoy the scene (and leave early because we have better things to do). Then, when they return to their red state homes, in Tennessee perhaps, they will feel properly chastised as we continue to slam them on our blogs, and they'll hate the north even more than they did before. Think how much better we'd feel about ourselves! (Sorry for the sarcasm.)No apologies are needed for sarcasm. In fact, if you need to apologize for sarcasm, why bother being sarcastic at all? What bothers me about this more than the sarcasm is that it confirms the regional hostility I suspected Winer was engaged in when he came up to a group including Trey Jackson and said "HEY Y'ALL!" in a mock southern accent. I'm from Philadelphia, and I didn't detect the slightest hint of regional prejudice -- much less hurling of insults -- towards the north or northern (or non-southern) bloggers anywhere at the conference. As explained, I thought I did detect its flip side from Dave Winer, and although I gave him the benefit of the doubt, it's now clear that my suspicions were right. Apparently, this man has a real problem with southern people. What I don't understand is why he gets a pass. Had Glenn Reynolds (as Winer insinuates) displayed anti-northern sentiments or made anti-northern remarks we'd never hear the end of it. The idea of him doing that is as laughable as it is unimaginable. So what's with this confederate flag reading "YOU LOST" and "GET OVER IT," anyway?  Get over what? Winer doesn't explain. The only difference I see between this and some of the anti-Hispanic prejudice I've seen in some circles is that Winer gets away with it because people tiptoe around him. I guess one of the perks of being a rich white leftist is that you can poke all the fun you want at "hicks," "rednecks," and "trailer trash," certain in the knowledge that no one (at least, none of the sycophants who think you're cool) will dare call you a bigot. If someone dares to disagree, why, you can just pull out the Confederate flag and try to shame them with it. It's so crass it's unbelievable. What's next? Glenn Reynolds in a Klan robe? The InstaKleagle? Please! Someone wake me up and tell me that Dave Winer is engaged in satire and not bigotry. I can't believe this nonsense is being spouted by a man considered intelligent. I guess I should be grateful that I'm from Philadelphia and I don't have to worry about not being "over" something that was lost in 1865. I have other insecurities. That's why I redesigned the Confederate flag.  Because bigotry comes in all shades.
(Would anyone believe me if I said "I thought Dave Winer was MUCH more than that"?)
MORE: Bill Hobbs isn't buying Winer's "apology" for sarcasm: As for Winer saying he was "sorry for the sarcasm," - no he isn't. If he was sorry for it, he wouldn't have posted it. That's a transparent effort to dodge responsibility for what he posted.Bill also has more on the laughter incident, noting that what was laughed at was Winer's contention that we all agree on the economy being in bad shape. Regardless of who is right, there are so many views of the economy that it is indeed laughable to contend we all agree. I was laughed at when I called myself a "Pantheist," but I wasn't surprised, nor was I hurt. Different people react differently to such things, and after all, I was attending a panel on evangelical/faith-based blogging. What Winer said was even more of a stretch -- as if I had said that "we can all agree that pantheism is the universal religion." Had I said this, I'd have expected to be laughed out of the room. I'm seriously wondering whether Winer should just stick with the promulgation of technology standards. The problem is, his unquestioned technological expertise does not qualify him to promulgate political standards -- especially when he's shown himself unable to uphold them. UPDATE (05/14/05): My thanks to Sisyphean Musings (a leading milblogger I was honored to meet at BlogNashville) for kindly linking this post. Sisyphean readers, welcome! posted by Eric on 05.11.05 at 09:21 AM
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» Symbols and allegiances : Strategic Insults from Get Real
Here is a little quiz...do any of the following images bother you in any way? Burning the American flag "Modified" Confederate flag "Modified" Gay flag These images are linked-to on Classical values here and here If any do then you... [Read More] Tracked on May 15, 2005 06:22 PM
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Heh. Don't be so sure about Philadelphia. Most of its leaders gladly would have gone with the South in 1860 if they'd been allowed. William B. Reed, a leading Philadelphia Democrat, called for a Pennsylvania convention "to determine with whom her lot should be cast, whether with the North and East, whose fanaticism has precipitated this misery upon us, or our brethren of the South whose wrongs we feel as our own." Robert Tyler, former chair of the state Democratic Executive Committee, wrote, "should the Border States join the Southern Confederacy within one, two or three years, it would then become a most serious question to determine the political status of Pennsylvania and New Jersey in that relation." And George W. Woodward, chief justice of the state Supreme Court not only argued for the South's right to peaceful secession, he added, "I wish Pennsylvania could go with them." I wrote more about that here, if you're curious: http://www.etymonline.com/cw/keystone.htm Callimachus · May 11, 2005 07:52 PM Hmm.. I don't recall you being laughed at when you said you were a pantheist. But I'll not press the point. (I know I didn't laugh at you, I simply pointed and yelled, "Eeee-viiil!" But I guess you didn't hear me...) Donald Sensing · May 11, 2005 11:19 PM Thanks for the comments! Regarding Philadelphia, there was a lot of support for the Confederacy, which led to the formation of the Union League (a secret society formed to combat northern "copperheads"). Things were quite nasty. Regarding the laughter, I was aware that my remark created some rumbling or tittering (I probably interpreted the "Eeeeviiiil!" that way) and Mick Wright emailed me and said I was laughed at. Not only did this not bother me, I think that as a form of dialogue, amused laughter wouldn't have been inappropriate. What pleasantly surprised me was the utter civility overall. The group was all ears, and I'm very glad to have attended. The bottom line here is that Dave Winer could learn much about civility -- AND respect -- from the people he probably dismisses as bible thumping bigots. And while I disagree with the idea that laughter is necessarily disrespectful, I also recognize that: a) there is no universal standard of what constitutes "disrespect"; and b) Dave Winer should stick to universal RSS (as opposed to "DIS") standards. Eric Scheie · May 12, 2005 08:55 AM I totally agree with you on the comments about Dave Winer. But explain a couple of things to me about your newly designed confederate flag... Who is the redesigned flag supposed to insult? Dave Winer!? Maybe I'm slow...but I don't get it! Dylan Barrell · May 12, 2005 03:52 PM You ask some good questions -- which might be more appropriate if asked about Dave Winer's use of the hated Confederate flag: Who is the Confederate flag supposed to insult? Glenn Reynolds!? What does the Confederate flag have to do with Glenn Reynolds? Nothing!? So who is it really designed to insult? Southerners!? Who does it insult? nobody!? What does it actually end up insulting? Your intelligence, my intelligence or nothing!? BTW, the flag wasn't newly designed for Dave Winer; it's just a piece of artistic satire I did in 2003. I never liked the Rainbow flag -- precisely because I was told in no uncertain terms that I must like it. While on one level, it always struck me an intellectually stultifying symbol of Multiculturalist hegemony, on another level the political hypercorrectness surrounding it indicts any criticism of it as "disrespect." And by encouraging (if not demanding) similar false respect, Dave Winer is not serving the cause he claims to claims to champion. Eric Scheie · May 12, 2005 07:05 PM "unquestioned technological expertise" Heh. Right. Unquestioned. Jeff Licquia · May 12, 2005 07:07 PM We are brothers in thought about political correctness for sure...I think it is the most insiduous disease... I despise symbols too...they are strategically too weak...you can read my more detailed treatment of that here. http://www.barrell.com/blog/archives/2005/04/symbols_and_ell.html But be prepared, you might not like the specifics... So if I understand it, your flag is basically a provocative defilement of a symbol designed to insult those who revere the symbol and consider any assault on it unacceptable? Bravo...if anyone actually is insulted by that, they are a moron... Dylan Barrell · May 12, 2005 11:39 PM Moron? I wouldn't want to be judgmental in matters of taste... Eric Scheie · May 13, 2005 04:25 AM Degustebus non est disputandum est...or taste is not a matter for argument In that you are right... Let me rephrase...in my humble opinion, I would consider those who would be offended by that to have not made full and correct use of their intellectual and analytic faculties... Call that what you want... Dylan Barrell · May 13, 2005 11:37 AM |
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Great post Eric. Talking with him we got into a bit of a disagreement on Friday. The only way we both backed off of it was that we both hailed from New York. Otherwise, in his eyes, I was doomed to second rate status. I think Dave has come to the conclusion that if you agree with him you are enlightened, and if you disagree you are below contempt and subject to ridicule. It shows up in his interactions in both the political and tech worlds.