Death by sexual disorganization?

In arguing against same sex marriage, Maggie Gallagher makes a very puzzling statement I am unable to ignore. Here's a long version of the quote, to keep it in context:

But fundamentally marriage is sustained by culture, not biology. Why then is it universal? Because it is the answer to an urgent problem that is biological and innate: sex makes babies. Nature alone won’t connect fathers to children. Children need a society in which both men and women are committed to their care.

When anthropologists in the thirties went out into the vanishing world of human diversity, the reason they found marriage everywhere is that societies that do not hang onto the marriage idea do not survive very long.

But marriage in a particular society is not inevitable; death by sexual disorganization is always an option. Happens quite a bit actually. cf. Roman empire.

Other bloggers have picked up on this quote and discussed it, but I'd feel remiss if I didn't, because I fear it's another version of a common but untrue smear -- that the fall of Rome was somehow connected with homosexuality. But bogus history does not go away -- no matter how many times I, or other bloggers might point out some basic facts. (This post by Dean Esmay did a great job.)

What's new here is that homosexuality is not directly stated to be the culprit. Nor is same sex marriage -- which would have been a laughable oxymoron for the Romans, even though there are a few reported instances of it happening.

HISTORICAL NOTE: Interestingly, the Family Research Council makes much of Nero's so-called "wedding" -- although the writer strains rather hopelessly to bootstrap Tacitus's disapproval of Nero's notorious public debauchery to disapproval of all homosexual conduct. What the Romans found offensive was the public nature of the event, which typified Nero, and was as unseemly as any of his other public outrages. As Tacitus wrote:

On the margin of the lake were set up brothels crowded with noble ladies, and on the opposite bank were seen naked prostitutes with obscene gestures and movements. As darkness approached, all the adjacent grove and surrounding buildings resounded with song, and shone brilliantly with lights. Nero, who polluted himself by every lawful or lawless indulgence, had not omitted a single abomination which could heighten his depravity, till a few days afterwards he stooped to marry himself to one of that filthy herd, by name Pythagoras, with all the forms of regular wedlock. The bridal veil was put over the emperor; people saw the witnesses of the ceremony, the wedding dower, the couch and the nuptial torches; everything in a word was plainly visible, which, even when a woman weds darkness hides.
Nero's affront was not homosexual conduct, but his highly public marriage to a low born (possibly a slave), in public, in a manner deliberately calculated to insult the dignity of his office. (Not that the Family Research Council will care, but I don't like seeing history twisted unnecessarily....)

To return to the topic, the force which caused the death of Rome is (according to Maggie Gallagher) now said to be "sexual disorganization."

Let me preface my remarks by reminding readers that I'm not one of those anti-Maggie Gallagher bigots who writes stuff like this comparing her to Nazis. Quite the contrary; I've gone out of my way to praise her, and even used one of her comments as a starting point for a series of posts.

So going to try to be fair here (and I even intend to argue that she might be unintentionally right....)

Here's the question of the day: what is sexual disorganization?

Say what you will about the Romans, but they were anything but sexually disorganized. They had numerous rules -- rules which might not be acceptable to modern Americans, but rules nonetheless. Here's a typically simplistic reaction by a modern writer to some of them:

Sometimes on the wedding night, the husband would not sleep with his new bride but arranged to sleep with another woman. The Roman state wanted fertility among mothers. Widows were not allowed to remarry. Husbands went out of their way to keep their own wives locked up like slaves. They deprived their wives of a life outside the home. It was forbidden for wives to possess money. The legal age for marriage in Ancient Rome for a woman was age 12, whether she had reached puberty or not.

Virginity upon marriage was valued. Roman men were allowed to engage in adultery, but their wives were not. Female sexuality was entirely defined in their patriarchical value: sex with wives for legitimate children and procreation of a man's children and prostitutes, concubines and slaves for a man's sexual leisure, rape for power over any woman.

Numerous scholars have identified an elaborate system of what can only be called sexual organization. Marriage in particular, was a very strong social institution, (not as sexist as commonly believed) which was taken quite seriously, and governed by an elaborate set of social and legal rules. This post is not about Roman marriage customs, but it's beyond dispute that they valued it highly, and above all, it was organized.

There's no evidence whatsoever that the Romans' sexual habits led to the death of Roman civilization, but it never ceases to amaze me how often the argument is made that Roman "sexual decadence" brought on the "Fall of Rome." What is being forgotten is that Roman civilization lasted for many hundreds of years before the eventual collapse, and that the empire had been Christianized for well over a hundred years before the fall (in the East it took longer, of course). During that period, Christian bishops did their damnedest to see to it that their form of Christian morality was imposed on Roman culture. Houses of prostitution were closed, sodomy laws were passed, and while I think it would be arrogant to maintain that these things caused the death of Rome, I think it's just as fair to ask whether in the ensuing chaos, the old Roman sexual organization might have been replaced with a new (and often quite vicious) form of sexual disorganization.

To be fair, I think it could at least as reasonably be argued that in the struggle, the older forms of Pagan sexual organization were repressed by what might be called the forces of "Christian sexual organization," and that such a clash might well have produced what we might call sexual disorganization.

But is that what Maggie Gallagher is talking about?

A late Roman/early Dark Ages culture war? If she is condemning that as deleterious to Rome and deleterious to the advancement of Western civilization, then I agree with her. (Whether she would want me to or not!) If culture wars can be said to produce cultural disorganization, then it's logical to assume that sexual culture wars would tend to produce sexual disorganization.

I don't know whether that kind of sexual disorganization could cause the death of a society. I realize that my definition of sexual disorganization is probably not the same as Ms. Gallagher's because she seems to be identified with one particular "side" of the so-called "Culture War."

Much as I'm sympathetic to Ms. Gallagher's stated concern about the place of Western civilization in the future world, I'd rather see the Culture War end, because I think it's constantly ratcheting up the forces that promote sexual disorganization by forcing people to take sides on personal matters, forcing them to define themselves by what they do with their genitalia, and making it impossible to use ordinary words like "family."

I never wanted to do these things, and it's never been my goal to "mess with marriage."

(The damned Culture War has already done a fine job of that.)

posted by Eric on 10.23.05 at 10:00 AM










Comments

Sexual disorganization? I must say that, while she advocates chaos, Wanda's orgies with her 69 women are very scientifically organized, as were those portrayed by the Marquis de Sade.

On the other side of a spectrum, Dawn's and Norma's Total Commitment Marriage is as tight as any marriage could ever be, the tight bondage of holy wedlock, absolute eternal fidelity.

Your attempt to equate the legislation of Christian sexual mores with "sexual disorganization" is unconvincing. While one might argue that sexual license was not the sole, primary, or even most important cause of the fall of the empire, it certainly cannot be argued that somehow as society became Christian and therefore adopted Christian moral views in its laws that these changes account for the decline. You cite no evidence, and your main complaint seems to be that the Christian emperors did not take the position of the modern Democratic party and advocate utter sexual license and the agnosticism of the state where sexuality is concerned. I'm not surprised that Christians would attempt to enshrine these deeply held beliefs into law; I am surprised that you would fail to acknowledge that advocating legal sexual license is also enacting a philosophy into law. Why should we have to chose the establishment in law of your philosophy instead of our natural law and religious views?

Anonymous   ·  October 24, 2005 12:55 PM

I suggest re-reading what I said.

In taking issue with the "sexual license caused the fall of Rome" meme, I posited that it's "just as fair to ask" or that it could "reasonably be argued" that enacting Christian sexual legislation like sodomy laws could cause just as much disorganization as the failure to do so. In logic, I need not provide examples, as I am countering speculation with speculation. (And, also in logic, it's as reasonable to assume that change can cause chaos as would the absence of change. Maybe more.)

I'm not sure what to make of your statement that "advocating legal sexual license is also enacting a philosophy into law." Advocating is not the same thing as enacting.

As to what "we" might "have to choose," that is your dichotomy, not mine. Leaving people alone is not enacting a philosophy, because in the absence of legislation people are still free to obey their religious strictures; they just aren't free to impose them on others. For example, I think it's a real stretch to maintain that the absence of laws prohibiting the eating of pork is the enactment of a philosophy favoring the eating of pork, as no one is required to do so, nor is anyone prevented from doing so. (Surely you don't maintain that the failure to enact dietary laws limits anyone's religious freedom?)

The use of the term "advocating sexual license" is confusing to me, but when you characterize me as complaining "that the Christian emperors did not take the position of the modern Democratic party and advocate utter sexual license," you are not only putting words in my mouth, and assuming that I agree with the Democratic Party, and advocate what I do not advocate. To disagree with sodomy laws is no more the advocacy of "utter license" than disagreement with dietary laws would be the advocacy of utter gluttony" so you're really arguing with yourself there.

Eric Scheie   ·  October 24, 2005 2:39 PM

Nice try, but it remains that if you desire to repeal sodomy laws because it is your philosophy that government should not impose certain views on the public, then you are indeed picking and choosing between goods you want the government to promote. Presumably, you will leave intact other prohibitions, such as those against theft or assault; these laws also embody a viewpoint: why do you support outlawing theft but not sodomy? Perhaps you think that outlawing sodomy crosses some line of government authority you have drawn in accord with your philosophy. Fine. But don't pretend that your view is somehow morally neutral. To deliniate the power of government to outlaw ,this activity but not that is to "impose" someone's moral view as against someone elses. Just ask the next shoplifter you see whether he thinks you should impose your moral values on him by forbidding him to steal.

Just because sex is at issue does not make the analysis different. Society will always have laws regulating some aspect of sexuality, whether it be consanguinity for marriage, and the sundry laws of divorce, or whether or not sodomy should be legally permitted. You wish it to be permitted, because you have a view of society that includes license to engage in such activity. As an original matter, there is no compelling reason why that view should trump the established view had decided that this activity is socially and morally destructive, and therefore it should be outlawed.

I presume it makes the partisans of homosexuality better to feel that they are somehow being neutral in trying to overturn sodomy laws, while trying to frame those who wish the laws to remain undisturbed as religious extremists opposed to freedom, but saying it doesn't make it so. You can't advocate a position in the Culture war (such as legitimizing sodomy by legalizing it)and then deny you're being partisan. Have the courage of your convictions and admit you are picking a side and want sexual license to be normative, so therefore these laws must go.

Anonymous   ·  October 25, 2005 2:38 PM

As someone who believes in a limited role for government, I'd say the same thing about dietary laws, laws against drugs, laws against free speech, or laws against self defense, because I think freedom means the right to be left alone unless a person harms other people or property. If that makes me a "partisan of homosexuality," then why am I not also a "partisan of heroin"? Would you be "partisan of pork" for not wanting dietary laws? A "partisan of alcohol" for opposing the 18th Amendment? A "partisan of Jews" for opposing the Nuremburg Laws?

I'm having trouble with the idea that having the government stay out of people's lives absent harm to others constitutes imposing a view, because I think it's quite the opposite.

Let's posit the following:

1. Person A wants to masturbate in private;

2. Person B wants laws to prevent person A from doing that (to himself);

Would person A's "view" be "imposed" on person B if the government would not make a crime of person A's conduct at B's behest?

I just don't see the logic.

Eric Scheie   ·  October 26, 2005 9:29 AM

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classicalvalues.com

classicalvalues.com

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