We may or may not agree on all issues. I liked your admitting you made some mistakes in recommending a particular lifestyle a while back.

Some issues we may not agree on.

I had a similar conversation with my 84-year-"young" Mother about my voting Republican (first time since McGovern) as you did yours. Mine didn't cry, she (apparently unknowingly?) got even...

But this is a point of "apparent fact", Mr. Scheie:

"Who demands a boycott of Israeli products, as well as companies supporting Israel?"

Well I could not help but observe that the page was hosted on a subnet of pacbell.net, so looking a li'l further apparently SBC also says that.

Who'd a thunk? I'm guessing they have no idea WHAT they support at SBC and/or PacBell, if I'm not mistaken about where that page is being hosted.

Tell me, "Right, probably an accident and a freedom of speech thingee (they can't or won't do anything about...)-;", I hope...)-;

I find disturbing similarities with the Autorantic Virtual Moonbat, too. You don't suppose...?

You think that's weird? Try politically correct, gay friendly Nazis. Bizarre.

Actually, I was thinking of National Socialists at the beginning of your post. An ordinary "liberal" would have been quite shocked to see your answer, but I was not at all surprised. As you suggest, the things you quoted could easily be the platform of the Democratic party.

Ayn Rand noted this in "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal". Leonard Peikoff wrote an excellent book on this subject, "The Ominous Parallels". In a debate with some socialists, he illustrated the spectrum of it this way:

The liberals said: "Let's have ECONOMIC controls!" The conservatives replied: "No, let's have INTELLECTUAL controls!" Hitler agreed with both: "You're both right, let's have TOTAL control!" Peikoff disagreed with all three: "Let's not HAVE controls!" I agree with Peikoff!

The National Socialist Movement. Yes, I spent a fair portion of around 1992 reading writings of Nazis, National Socialists, racialists, Holocaust deniers. I am quite familiar with them, their ideas, arguments, and styles. They are better writers than most Leftists, but I totally oppose what they advocate and would fight them to the death. And I got tired of reading about "race, race, race" and "Jews, Jews, evil Jews, the root of all evil" all the time. I once saw a thread crossposted in Usenet entitled "Who Are The Race Deniers?" I am!

My Dad fought the Nazis in World War II. A historian, he had some Nazi and Klan literature from that period and earlier in his library.

Unfortunately for them, self-proclaimed neo-Nazis or overt racists are even more politically irrelevant today than are Marxists. They have as much chance taking over this country as Badnarik did of getting elected President. They now have about the same amusement value as Flat Earthers.

Poor Aryan. Looks like Dawn (blonde, blue-eyed, beautiful) but thinks like Mrs. Haight. That got her in trouble. She is totally heterosexual, she hates Lesbianism, but she is now imprisoned in a women's prison for life for murdering a black man . Wanda is laughing about it. ha! ha!

Dawn is at the top of Aryan's list of "the Race Deniers" because holy Dawn loves her holy Negro wife Norma. Dawn and Norma totally oppose all racism, it is unholy and is part of the KKKommunist KKKonspiracy. Aryan must stay in her prison forever, it is her punishment. "Do Bee" holy. "Don't Bee" a Nazi.

Holy Dawn and her holy Negro wife Norma: the ultimate integration: Europe and Africa, North and South, blue and red, and body and soul, body and body, soul and soul, the Ego and the Infinite, the Divine, Goddesses....

Dave, that's gotta be a joke. Libertarian National Socialist Green Party? It may just be the glass of wine, but I can't imagine being able to wrap my brain around all of the ramifications there..

Green Nazis. I though Environmentalism was Marxism's new face, but Fascism works just as well. I've been calling them "wildernazis" for a long time. After all, it's a clever way to do away with private property. Utah just voted down an initiative to tax the people to buy more "open space" to exclude them from. Utah's already two-thirds public lands, but they need more open space?

Glenn Reynolds quotes this bit of wisdom:
"The American People deserve far better than to have to make an ill informed choice between the lesser of two evils. Let them vote National Socialist in 2008."

Instead of voting for the lesser of two evils, vote for the greatest of all evils.

World War II was a blast.

Some people say the Jews were too vindictive after the War, following their Old Testament code of stern "eye for an eye" justice. Not so. In fact, they readily forgave Adolf Eichmann even after he had shipped 6,000,000 of them to the death camps. They even invited him to come to Israel and hang around.

Some say the Nazis were bigoted and hateful. Not at all. Why, that's bigoted of you to say that. The Nazis didn't hate Jews, they were just purifying the gene pool of their race. Eichmann wasn't anti-Semitic. He didn't hate Jews. He was just following orders. He had nothing personal against Jews. In fact, he liked them so much he decided to visit Israel and it became his favorite hang-out.

Some say the judges at Nuremberg were too vindictive, too harsh. Not at all. In fact, they were so liberal that they gave many of the Nazis a suspended sentence. They even invited those Nazis to a party, a necktie party. Refreshments served: sausage, cold cuts, potato salad, black bread, and tea.

Libertarian National Socialists? Genocide between consenting adults?

"Holy Dawn and her holy Negro wife Norma: the ultimate integration: Europe and Africa, North and South, blue and red, and body and soul, body and body, soul and soul, the Ego and the Infinite, the Divine, Goddesses...."

They love to lick chocolate ice cream and whipped cream off each other's tongues.

If you're surprised by "Green Nazis" you should go learn a bit more about the original Nazis. Not only were they quite enthusiastic about preserving nature, they were also into gun control and opposed to smoking.

And who said this? "The replacement of the current tax system with a flat-rate tax based on income. " or this: "We demand the right to bear arms for law-abiding citizens." see point 13 and 21

What a underhanded attempt at smearing people by attempting to link them to Nazis.
You have no intellectual honesty at all, do you?

Ecofascism: Lessons from the German experience

http://www.spunk.org/library/places/germany/sp001630/ecofasc.html

This skinhead with a long chin-beard came into the precinct I was poll-watching for the Republicans this year wearing a green SS uniform, with the double-lightning bolt insignia, "Totenkopf" on a shoulder-patch, shiny black boots, the whole nine yards. While he was scaring the little old lady poll workers, I and the Democratic pollwatchers frantically went through our voter-lists to make sure this screaming embarrassment wasn't one of *ours*. When he didn't show up on either list, I joked that he was a "Green" - after all, Hitler was an environmentalist.

I guess it wasn't as silly a joke as I thought it was...

Hitler was also a vegetarian and a teetotaler. Far better examples for our children than the smoking alcoholics carnivores Roosevelt and Churchill. This sordid leadership's example is now being repeated by Marine Lance Cpl. James Blake Miller. No doubt he is a carnivore too.

It's so revealing that the partisan hack, aka Instapundit, would link to garbage like this. It's hard to determine who is worse--the moron who posted this garbage, or the partisan hack for linking to this.

I'm going to return to reality now.

NO! NO! Please don't go!

Just when I was getting ready to apologize for my outburst of bizarre, hateful silliness, and being a moron and all... And I was even going to apologize for Glenn Reynolds linking to me too!

My passions were all mobilized and I just kind of got carried away and started having partisan revelations. Just playing, honest! Don't be mean to me. I promise to take my medications....

Dave,

Actually, the original Nazis were gay-friendly when it suited their purpose. Ernst Roehm, the leader of the SA (the original Brownshirts) was gay as were many of the SA, and there are rumors about Hitler himself. Today's Left will be no different, as the gays and other minorities will discover the hard way if they are ever given the power they desire.

It's easier to pretend that the GOP resembles Nazism just as closely as leftism does, or even easier still to lash out in twee rage, than to attempt refute the fact that there is only one species of opposition to liberty.

Next time in debate with a lefty, just ask them: "besides international aggression and genocide, don't you have any philosophic difficulties with National Socialism?"

Expect a long silence. They really have difficulty coming up with an answer. A conservative will have an answer in a second.

The left just doesn't get that you can't have a touchy feely dictatorship.

What I find interesting about this discussion is the total lack of understanding about what damage it does to the political process in this country if you continue to polarize and divide. In the words of Jon Stewart: "Please stop."

Tell that to Mike al-Moore and the DNC. They are the ones with the divide-and-conquer strategy. Don't expect a unilateral surrender from the Right.

Not gonna happen.

I am a fellow moron, uninformed wingnut, mindlessly angry for no reason (actually, since the election, I have not been angry at all, I've been feeling great, but that must prove what a moron I am). Anyway, I luckily went over to that Counterpundit guy who left such a thoughtful, informative and pursuasive comment here earlier, and man did he ever set me straight. What the hell was I thinking?! (slaps forehead). I was especially wowed by his use of clever nicknames for Glenn and Michelle.

Sigh.

Thanks for the great post Eric, and congratulations on another Instalanche.

I agree that name-calling is also counter productive. But why is it "unilateral surrender" just to engage in civil discussion?

The lack of civil discussion in the forum is due to a particular group's having gone off of the deep end. The country is not polarized. It's just that the group that has gone off the deep end has gotten control of one of the two microphones. It makes no sense to demand that these nutcases be engaged in civil discourse. This fringe group must be exposed for what it is until the mic is taken back to those in the party it claims to represent who are capable of civil discussion and have not gone off the deep end.

Rick,

Next time you see a Leftist say "Bush == Hitler", hit him harder, faster, and more ruthlessly than I would if I happened to be around.

Next time you see a Leftist advocate shooting American officers, shoot him.

Disavow and condemn the Stalinist front group International A.N.S.W.E.R.

Then we can begin to have a discourse.

So long as you (and I mean your side, not necessarily you, yourself) embrace people who compare me to the fucking SA, don't expect much in the way of polite discourse.

Disavow those elements, and we can talk.

Keep calling me a stormtrooper, and sooner or later you’ll get to find out what it is like to live in a society where I am violently active.

And again, Rick, I'm not saying that you, personally, have done any of this.

Your side has.

If you want to continue the conversation, come over to LGF.

We can play :-)

"If you want to continue the conversation, come over to LGF."

I suggest that if you do post over at LGF, don't expect any intelligent conversation. What happens is you are angrily attacked and then banned from posting when they can't respond to things they can't deal with.

"where I am violently active"

Whatever collection of political view points a person may consider or hold to be their own, people should not be issuing threats.

This immature behavior throws up road blocks to debate and examination. I have seen it too many times. These guys are very quick to jump to playing victim of some "insult" and then they decide they have a right to refuse to respond or to threaten violence. This is as foolish as tolerating a debate participant to show up wearing brass knuckles and saying "he might" hit the other person. It really is a sign of anti-social primitive thinking. Another one of the non-thinkers is this guy "Callimachu" who says things like it was "anti-American" to have been against slavery. When he is proven wrong by a posted comment he simply deletes the comments.

Few liberals are interested in commenting on a conservative blog. They will comment derisively however, when they see an opportunity to show off their cleverness. NOTE: As do conservatives on liberal blogs.
They are so clearly right, what could they possibly learn from a conservative (or a questioning liberal)? Also, when they do try to refute conservative arguments they find that they are so out of practice at considering any questions about their beliefs that they do a terrible job of defending them to a questioning person. In liberal society one does not question things, one understands them. The only questions tolerated among liberals are those which seek FURTHER UNDERSTANDING. Liberals will always take the time to help another liberal further understand liberal beliefs. Tolerance of someone questioning liberal beliefs? Not so much.
Therefore when a conservative (who is reason-based) tangles with a liberal (who is faith [in professors, MSM and Europe]-based it isn’t pretty. Liberals learn to stick to the liberal blogs where none of their assumptions will be challenged.

"Therefore when a conservative (who is reason-based) tangles with a liberal (who is faith [in professors, MSM and Europe]-based) it isn’t pretty."

The generalizations you are making bear no relation to reality. A recent pipa survey showed a majority of Bush supporters believed things that were at odds with reality. Note that mainstream media basically refused to report the results of the poll.

As far as dealing with things. At classicalvalues they thought it was clever to link leftist ideas with Nazis. (how is this "reasoned based"?)
I exposed their attempts as ridiculous with my questions: And who said this? "The replacement of the current tax system with a flat-rate tax based on income. " or this: "We demand the right to bear arms for law-abiding citizens."
(You should notice that I didn't get an answer) comment

I support the right of all men and women to keep and bear arms, even Nazis and Communists. Free speech and free exercise of your religion, too. God, and all Gods and Goddesses, bless America.

Dear Eric:

I'm glad Glenn Reynolds sent you another Instalanche. You deserve an Instalanche every day. Evertbody should read Classical Values. Excellent thread here. Extremely interesting.

But, though I defend their rights on the same grounds that I selfishly defend my own, I still despise Nazis (Communists, too). I'm glad we won World War II. I'm proud that my Dad fought in it. I admire Churchill. I hate Shitler. I am a card-carrying member of the Western Imperialist Zionist Homosexualist Conspiracy. I SUPPORT ISRAEL 100%. To all Nazis (National Socialists) I say: all you deserve is: sausage, cold cuts, potato salad, black bread, and tea.

HEIL THE ANTI-HITLER! HAIL TO THE CHRIST, OSIRIS! HAIL TO ISIS, THE QUEEN OF HEAVEN!

I am mobilizing my passions. I am a MasturHater. Holy Dawn and her holy Negro wife Norma. (The two High Priestesses, Goddesses, licking chocolate ice cream and whipped cream off each other's tongues in Divine embrace, the highest integration.) Wicked Wanda and her women (Wendy, Cindy, Sandy, Candy, Brandy, Brenda, Glenda, Stella, Hannah...).

Tom Murphy,

Hardly a threat. That is simply a logical extrapolation from current trends. Some of you "peaceful" Leftists shot up the Knoxville Republican Party headquarters this election cycle. It is only logical that if the violence comes to me I will respond violently.

Since my side has been shot at, me saying back down or things may get violent is rather mild, don't you think? It is your side that is calling us Nazis, Brownshirts, etc., but that's OK because you're Leftists.

By definition anything you do is OK. Apparently including shooting at us.

You need to step back, and take a look at where you are going. Before it is too late. We had limited violence from your side this election cycle. Once you surpass limited, things will get much worse very quickly.

That's not a threat. It is merely a realistic assessment of the situation.

Time to stand down, holmes. You lost.

Deal with it.

"Hardly a threat. That is simply a logical extrapolation from current trends."

There is nothing logical about you claiming it is "rather mild" to threaten to be "violently active" because of something said to you. You really need to grow up. And you are delusional if you think "your side" has been "shot at"
and that you now have a license to issue threats of violence when people say things you don't like.
You made my point that it is simply not correct to claim that a "conservative is reason-based"

I really didn't want to have anything more to say here, but I am struck by the anger of posters like "Iron Fist," who is now resorting to physical threats. I am also really impressed with the patience of posters like "Tom Murphy" and "Rick," who have been completely reasonable in all their comments.

Indeed, this Iron Fist character is completely unglued. He says, out of the blue:

Keep calling me a stormtrooper, and sooner or later you'll get to find out what it is like to live in a society where I am violently active.

I reread the entire thread over and over again, and I can not see where anyone called Iron Fist a stormtrooper. Indeed, his explosive comments seem to come out of nowhere.

Which brings me back to my objection to the original post. As I have said in my blog and in my correpondence with Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit:

"Regarldess of my political party, I think anyone who compares either major party to the Nazis is being inflammatory. And anyone with a part in the public political debate should take the same point of view. Such comparisons are an attempt to inflame and promote misunderstanding and hatred."

Clearly, that is precisely what has happened here. Eric Scheie wrote an inflammatory post, and brought out the anger and hatred in posters like Iron Fist.

Way to go, Eric Scheie. You must be very proud.

Tom Murphy,

So are you claiming those shots were somehow fake?

Please. "Oh, it's OK when Leftists shoot up someplace. Becides, Prove they were Leftists."

Those were real bullets, and they were fired by your side. And you quite clearly are supporting that. You really want to step up, we can play.

Dude, as I said in my last post, you want to step back. Stand down and reconsider your position.

And Billy, Hi! Nice to see you. Look, I know you aren't particularly bright, but when the ADL jumped your side for calling people like me "Digital Brownshirts", I'd think you'd at least consider backing off.

Nobody on this thread did more than call me "immature" or "unglued". This thread isn't the entire Universe. Al Gore did not say "That man, over there is a Digital Brownshirt". That I was included in the group was implied.

But he called the Right-wing Bloggers Brownshirts. Perhaps you are so ignorant that you don't know that "Brownshirts" are SA.

Sturm Abtielung.

Storm Troopers.

As I said to homeboy above, y'all need to back off the rhetoric sometime yesterday.

Trippe ignores Eric's argument that the post does not compare the DNC to the Nazis. He just repeats his assertion that it does. That's trolling.

Dear Tom Murphy,

I believe you may have gotten off on the wrong foot here. Do the tactics you are using ever actually work? Have your imperious demands and allegations ever swayed anyone’s opinion? Even once?
Do people avoid you at parties?
Having read your blog, I find that it posesses neither grace nor wit. Regarding content, it seems fairly unoriginal, with no distinctive "value added" perspective, but is rather a dry regurgitation (painful!) of the received wisdom. Why do you imagine we should want to talk to you?
And when you speak about honest engagement, I get the feeling that you are not being sincere. It seems to me that you're just trying to pick an argument. Well, you'll get no argument from me, sir.
However, I am curious. How many more years of "Bush equals Hitler" must I listen to before "Michael Moore equals Hitler" can get a little play? Is copyright somehow involved? Please quote me a number I can use. Ridicule is a longstanding American political tradition, and turnabout is alleged to be fair play. Besides, it's not like we're tarring ALL democrats with this brush.
Why, I myself am a life-long democrat, imagine that, and I thought it was pretty funny. Seems like a lot of people did, (Thanks, Sergio!). Are our views automatically invalid simply because YOU say so? Well okay then, consider me converted. You are right Tom. Savor your triumph. Isn’t winning great?
Here's something you might like to ponder. I have been a democrat for thirty years now. I am in favor of gay rights, abortion, and embryonic stem-cell research. I’m not a Christian, I live in a blue state metropolitan area, and I have a college degree. Yet I voted for George Bush.
Why do you suppose that is? Am I evil? Or am I just stupid? Don’t bother telling me, those questions are rhetorical.
Allow me to conclude with the observation that you are a very poor speller. I know it’s a bother and all, but it distracts mightily from the main points of your argument. Plus, it makes you sound like you’re about fifteen years old, and who wants that?
Please promise me you’ll try to work on it. And do try to see the humor in things. Your online persona comes across as kind of grim and one-dimensional.

Sincerely Yours, Justin

P.S. Does anyone else think Mikey looks HOT in a uniform?

Yeah.

Me neither.

Tom

When contrarian posters arrive at LGF, as long as they are not trolling, being mobies or anti-semites, they are not banned. Oh, it might get a little rough as the posters there fact-check their tuckus and I've noticed the percentage of leftists who can deal honestly with facts or rational debate is very small (borne, I believe, of two factors ... Leftist ideology has held sway unchallenged for too long in so-called American intellectsia and that ideology is as faith-based has any holy-roller or islamist.)

On the other hand, even a mildly pro-Israel- like saying it's a soveriegn state with the right to defend itself - stance will get one banned within a comment at dKos or DU (been there, done that, didn't even get a t-shirt).

Now, Iron Fist made no physical threats. What he did do was make it clear that the left cannot threaten violence, even commit it against their opponents, in a vacuum. People will defend themselves, no matter how much leftist ideology has tried to beat that instinct out of them or tried to make people feel guilty about self-defense. That is the whole raison d'etre behind the weird left "moral absolutism" that tries to deem ALL violence "immoral." It is a way to try and disarm people of good will while leaving the thugs (ie ANSWER, NION, Moveon, et al) free rein.

I don't believe I have the right to claim credit for the words of others. It's flattering that anyone would imagine I have such power.

Hmmmm.....

Maybe I should say "Today, my commenters! Tomorrow, ze vorld!"

My first time here.

Is eating meat a BAD thing here? I love a good NY Strip or T-Bone, Medium-rare is perfect.

Libs have defined peace as the ultimate good. Wrong. Freedom is the ultimate good. Freedom first, peace will follow.

Blood rare t-bone for me with a bottle of Fosters. Can't beat it.

The rhetoric is already at a high DANGER LEVEL! Suddenly Bush=Hitler and Arafat=Peacemaker! The world is truly upside down. Christians are called gun-loving, haters, and intolerant. The Muslims are called victims, with a faith that is compassionate and merciful. The Pali's sure have the gun-loving thing over us Christians anyday! They fire those guns for every occasion. Births, weddings, funerals, oh and jihad! The blue sates buy the drivel of the Islamic Fascists, and the red sates are called dumb. A traitor like Kerry meets with terrorists and lies in hearings to Congress but is called a hero, and the heroes that fought for more than four months or actually received more than a band-aid for their wounds are called criminals and liars. This very morning I watched the Palestinians receive their leader via helicopter for burial. As I watched the crowds scaling walls, brandishing weapons, and mobbing the helicopters I actually heard commentary from news "reporters" describing the scene as "quite orderly". As I watched armed men hovering over the coffin, others firing guns randomly into the air, mobs jumping and chanting, and stretchers carrying off injured people- I actually heard "commentators" using the words "dignified" and "calm." It's the equivalent to watching a rape with audio of so-called educated professionals telling you this is the "intimate display of love and affection." The subliminal message is dumbfounding!

Medium rare? Heck, just slap that steer and send it out from the kitchen and it's MINE.

Nice glass of Merlot, too.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

"Al Gore did not say "That man, over there is a Digital Brownshirt". That I was included in the group was implied.

But he called the Right-wing Bloggers Brownshirts. Perhaps you are so ignorant that you don't know that "Brownshirts" are SA.

Sturm Abtielung."

Thanks fer that there clarification, Iron Fist. I thought maybe that crazy-ass pansy Gore was dissin' UPS. I kinda like the UPS guys. They always leave my packages in nice sheltered areas and are not afraid of the dawgs. Them Federal Express folk, now, they somethin' different.

If you want to kick the shit outta somebody liberal and annoying, I ain't got no objections 'cept to point out that you might want to wear some steel-toed boots so you don't hurt the toes.

Obviously, you NOT want to mess with LGF.

SwampWoman,
And some steel gloves. I got a new switchblade, and was working out balence, etc. and took off a sizable chunk of my left middle finger.

Think 1 inch long and a millimeter deep. A piece of me is dead. Ain't like it is the first time.

I'm bleeding over every damn thing. Quite annoying.

[sigh]

Iron Fist

Guess playing the violin will have to wait a while, eh?

;-)

*sigh*
Iron Fist correctly observes that if the lefties don't mellow out on their idiotic rhetoric, it can't help but get worse...

In true ACLU fascion (spelling intended), the cry goes out from some posters that physical harm was threatened.

Before you ready the lawsuit paperwork you liberal whiners, reread the posts S-L-O-W-L-Y.

Why don't you ignorant a-holes grow some stones, stop whining about perceived attacks, clean up your political agenda, and support the interests of the United States for once in your miserable, self-hating, anti-Semite, Muslim apologist lives?

You LOST the election because America is sick of your lies, your whining, and your apologies. Remember that in 2008, and it's just possible our guy won't get 60 million votes.

PS: Regarding this month's election: HA!

SOTG

"Now, Iron Fist made no physical threats. What he did do was make it clear that the left cannot threaten violence, even commit it against their opponents, in a vacuum."

"In true ACLU fascion (spelling intended), the cry goes out from some posters that physical harm was threatened. Before you ready the lawsuit paperwork you liberal whiners, reread the posts S-L-O-W-L-Y."

So these are the comments from the "reason based" crowd? Denying a comment on this very page?: "Keep calling me a stormtrooper, and sooner or later you'll get to find out what it is like to live in a society where I am violently active."

I really don't know what it takes to get you guys to admit the truth, even basic facts right here in front of you you deny. "Quotations from Michael Moore? Indymedia?" was intellectually dishonest. I exposed the premise as stupid and you guys skipped along ignoring it. ( And who said this? "The replacement of the current tax system with a flat-rate tax based on income. " or this: "We demand the right to bear arms for law-abiding citizens." see point 13 and 21)
I know you guys are very sensitive and don't like to be wrong but do you think you could make an attempt to admit the truth? The premise of this thread was ridiculous. Points 13 and 21 made that clear right? I know you like to think you are reason based but you need to walk the walk. If it is spelled out any more simply you guys complain that you are thought of as stupid. But seriously, was my first post so confusing that you couldn't respond to it? (the fool Doug Harper seemed very impressed with the "quotation device" yet can't defend his position)