Felons or citizens? (Good cop, bad cop?)

I'm beginning to understand why the MSM is disinclined to show things like Mexican flags on flagpoles or signs claiming that the Southwest belongs to Mexico.

In a previous post I questioned the advisability of creating millions of new felons. Earlier today I googled the phrase "12 million new felons," and found only one article using the term, in the Indiana Daily Student:

The United States could potentially have 12 million new felons or 12 million new citizens, depending on two sets of immigration reform legislation in the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate.

Congress, the nation and the IU community are currently taking up the debate whether to follow Monday's Senate Judiciary Committee proposal, which would create a guest worker program and presents a path toward citizenship for many illegal immigrants already in the country. On the other hand is the option to go along with the more hard-line lead of a bill the House passed last December, which strengthens border security and would make illegal immigration a felony offense.

"Everyone can agree that our immigration policy is broken," said John Nieto-Phillips, associate professor of history and Latino studies. "There are more people who want to work than there are visas."

Yeah, we all agree that the system is broken, but there's no consensus on what to do about it. Blah blah blah.

Before I get into the political considerations, let me elaborate on why I oppose the Sensenbrenner bill. I know it's tough to speculate about precisely how these things might play out, but what would be the consequences of having twelve million new felons (plus their non-alien supporters)? For starters, even though they're here and many of them have been here for years, they would never be allowed to vote, serve in the military, or immigrate to the United States. The felony classification would mean a readjustment of police priorities, because felonies are treated as high-priority matters. Suddenly, illegal alien status would become a more urgent matter than any misdemeanor.

The felon status might also change the nature of personal interactions between citizens and non-citizens. If the latter got into a car accident with the former, would the dynamics of accident reporting be changed? (Saying "Officer, that man is a felon!" carries more clout than saying that he ran the red light, as police officers are not allowed to ignore felonies.)

Then there's the "fleeing felon rule," which traditionally allowed officers (and often bystanders) to use lethal force to stop a fleeing felon. Since 1985, lethal force has not been allowed, so I don't think people would be authorized to shoot aliens for running away. But felony status would increase the number of what police call "felony stops."

I could play devil's advocate with this (and I know a good case can be made for the bill) but my concern is that the creation of 12 million new felons (with God-knows how many accomplices) is not something to be taken lightly.

Does anyone know well this might play with the voters? I haven't seen the polls. But after thinking it over, I am inclined to think that the draconian Sensenbrenner bill will help the Republicans -- provided it does not actually pass.

I'll try to explain.

Some have asked whether the felon bill is "threatening to undercut a decade-long effort by President Bush and his party to court Hispanic voters, just as both parties are gearing up for the 2006 elections." There's the obvious argument that it will galvanize the Republican base, but on the other hand passage of it might give the Democrats something to run against. ("The Republicans are going to imprison your entire family!")

What happens in November depends on a lot of things. As things stand, even if the hardline Sensenbrenner felony bill doesn't prevail, as long as the immigration issue stays alive, I think the Republicans will be seen as the party that at least tried to do something (and thus, would be more likely to do something in the future).

Recent polls show that the supposedly embattled Arnold Schwarzenegger is suddenly doing pretty well. Although Arnold is not a hard-liner on immigration by Republican standards, immigration is now a major issue, and his past remark that the border should be closed may have resonated in his favor. Today's LA Times says that the recent protests "reshape the governor's race":

A poll released today by the Public Policy Institute of California shows that illegal immigration has emerged as the top concern among Republicans in the state and the second most important among all of those surveyed. With the exception of education, the subjects that all three candidates have embraced have fallen behind.

The governor has not entirely ignored illegal immigration. He offered support for the civilian Minuteman border-patrol group last year and said California should "close the border," a comment he quickly rescinded.

On Tuesday, he outlined his views on immigration in an opinion piece in The Times. He endorsed a guest-worker program to help California businesses and argued against "criminalizing immigrants for coming here," though he also said that making citizens out of all illegal immigrants in the United States would be "anarchy."

I agree that it is a stupid idea to make citizens of people who came here illegally.

The fact that the "choice" is seen as being between citizenship and felony status is almost as absurd as asking people to choose between sodomy laws and gay marriage. It only shows how hugely polarizing the issue is. And while a majority of Americans might not want to imprison 12 million people who have crossed the border illegally, that does not mean they want their conduct rewarded. Americans were hugely pissed off to begin with, and now that they've seen the angry demonstrations by people with no right to be here, they're in no mood for rewarding illegal behavior.

The Sensenbrenner bill allows the Republicans to play good cop/bad cop. Come November, they can take all the credit for taking a hard line on immigration, and if it fails, they won't have to face the tough questions about tearing families apart and putting people in jail.

At the risk of sounding like the cynical Machiavellian I sometimes am, I think the Republicans will be helped by the Sensenbrenner bill -- as long as it never becomes law.

By far the best way would be to get the Democrats to kill it, or at least be seen as killing it.

Hillary Clinton was off to a good start when she denounced the Sensenbrenner as being likely to lead to a "police state." And she did even better with last week's criminalize Jesus remark. But since the Mexican flags and the Reconquista stuff, she's been much too silent. Tim Graham says the "police state" remark is now being downplayed. What's the matter? Can't she be annointed as the Sensenbrenner bill killer?

And what's up with Karl Rove? Can't he do a better job of making sure that Indymedia and Moveon.org wave the "Reconquista" signs and Mexican flags? Why is Moveon.org so damned silent about the immigration issue? (Well, at least Indymedia hasn't been sleeping on the job, but I'm disappointed in Moveon.org.) How about Cindy Sheehan and Michael Moore? Where are they now that the undocumented need them?

If the Democrats are to be seen as killing the bill, the Republicans will have to work harder.

Right now it's looking as though the Senate Republicans are going to kill the Sensenbrenner bill by burying it in a lack of consensus.

(I guess that's a form of cood cop/bad cop.)

UPDATE: Via Glenn Reynolds, Mickey Kaus begins by noting Paul Krugman's observation ("high school dropouts would earn as much as 8 percent more if it weren't for Mexican immigration") and thinks the ball should be in the Democrats' camp:

Krugman is clearly way off the PC/Dem/elite legalization reservation here. Republican Tony Blankley noticed. But will the Left? ... P.S.: The effect of immigrants in driving down the wages of unskilled African-American men is not just an economic question. It's a profound social question. Only by offering a decent living through legitimate work will we have a chance of integrating the large segment--maybe almost half--of the black male populations that's currently spinning off into a separate, destructive, "left behind" culture (even as black women are joining the regular labor force in record numbers). Where's the Congressional Black Caucus?
All good questions.

I'm not expecting answers.

AND MORE: Also via Glenn Reynolds, McQ at QandO thinks border control should come first. Yes, and it should have come first long ago. It's the one thing on which there's overwhelming popular (as opposed to political) consensus.

UPDATE (03/31/06): Sean Kinsell (while "of two minds" on how far to go with enforcement) also sees a backlash as a likely result of the recent demonstrations:

If the purpose of the demonstrations over the last few weeks was to win over Middle America, I'm thinking there were some serious miscalculations. Waving the Mexican flag or painting your face in its colors is a poor way to indicate your loyalty to the US. And thronging the streets of LA in the hundreds of thousands is...I mean, only the Blue City liberals who recall 60s-era demonstrations fondly as opportunities for The People to Speak Truth to Power are likely to be moved to sympathize, and they're already on the side of illegal aliens, anyway.
The demonstrations will resonate in favor of the Republicans as will the immigration issue if it continues to receive media coverage. (Which means maybe it won't.)

posted by Eric on 03.30.06 at 01:24 PM





TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://classicalvalues.com/cgi-bin/pings.cgi/3458






Comments

I think that, if being an illegal was made a felony, that would simply - de facto - create a new class of felon, the "felon we're going to ignore even though we're not supposed to because we have actual criminals - who are dangerous - to worry about".

I'm not familiar enough with the specifics at all levels to be sure that's practical, but if there's any practical way to achieve that, I suspect that's what would happen, simply because cops aren't stupid and know they have better things to do than treat an illegal like a murderer because both crimes are felonies.

I agree that creating 12 million new felons isn't to be taken lightly, though. We've already expanded felony status far too broadly.

Sigivald   ·  March 30, 2006 06:59 PM
valley   ·  March 30, 2006 07:29 PM


December 2006
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            

ANCIENT (AND MODERN)
WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR


Search the Site


E-mail

escheie_[AT]_yahoo_DOT_com




Classics To Go

Classical Values PDA Link

What ancient form of execution would you LEAST prefer?
Buried alive
Crucifixion
Flayed alive
Scourged to death
Stung/bitten to death by insects
Slow disembowelment
Roasted on grill
Dragged from chariot
Torn apart by wild beasts
Rolled downhill inside spiked barrel
Death of a thousand cuts
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com


Archives




Recent Entries



Links



Alphecca (My Blogdaddy)



Puff the Protector


Andrew Sullivan

Gays in Military Site

Middle East Media Research Institute

Gay Libertarian Site
The Bitch Girls
Join the NRA!


SECOND AMENDMENT VIDEO!

Shooters' Carnival

Tammy Bruce
Gun Owners of America
goalogox.gif

front_cover.jpg
KerryCom.gif
fighting101sSm.jpg
David Hackworth
ElectricVenom.com
SgtStryker.com
Hell In A Handbasket
Matt Welch
The Volokh Conspiracy
Virginia Postrel
PseudoPsalms
The Light of Reason
The Anger of Compassion
Anger Management
Dustbury.com
Rachel Lucas
Shadow Government
reflections in d minor
JustOneMinute
Boone Country
Catallarchy
Roger L. Simon Button
Agenda Bender
Mike Silverman
Steven Malcolm Anderson
Walter in Denver
Impearls
Donald Sensing
Howard Owens
Loco Parentis
imao15.jpg
Colby Cosh
VodkaPundit
Radley Balko
Dean's World
The Queen of All Evil
baldilocks
Joe Gandelman
Dave Tepper
Begging to Differ
Kesher Talk
Jeff Jarvis
Doc Searls
Little Green Footballs
Captain Ed
Oh, That Liberal Media!
ICANNfocus.org
God of the Machine
Sandefur's Freespace
Wizbang
Robert Prather
LawPundit
adrcircle.jpgThe Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Amygdala
bilious young fogey
MadLab
On the Fritz
why dave bergman is neat
Skiplog
Clowning Glory
Dispatches from the Culture Wars
Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon?
Anti-Socialist Tendencies
Of Interest
WICKED THOUGHTS
Setting The World To Rights
doubleplusgood infotainment
It Can't Rain All The Time
Scrutineer
Nick Danger, International Man of Mystery
seldom sober
TRITICALE
Random Jottings
Graham Lester
point2point
Shark Blog
Gene Healy
Discount Blogger
Six Foot Pole
Dodgeblogium
Across the Atlantic
The Imperialist Dog
Lex Talionis
Mind Of Mog
Say Uncle
CAMPVS MAWRTIVS
res gestae dionysii
Annika's Journal & Poetry
A :{FRUSTRATED}: ARTIST
Yet another weird SF fan
Lincoln Cat
The Meatriarchy
Who is Ronald?
Short Daddy
Punch Drunk
Mookie Riffic
On The Third Hand
MatthewEdgar.net
ZenPundit
Jennifer's History and Stuff
blogcrit-button.gif
argghhh!!!
Modulator
D.C. Thornton
Centerfield
Asymmetrical Information
Airline Pilots Security Assn
Relapsed Catholic
PAPADOC
Abraca-Pocus
The Pryhills
Winds of Change
Daily Pundit
The Speculist
Regnum Crucis
The Elfin Ethicist
Classics in Contemporary Culture
elephant-rabbits
A Perfectly Cromulent Blog
allied
Parableman
Southern Musings
CALIFORNIA YANKEE
Allen's Arena
Ex-Gay Watch
Jonno
Michael Moore doesn't love me!
Eschaton
Clayton Cramer
Letters From a Strip of Dirt
Oliver Willis
Hesiod Theogeny
Dr Zen
JunkYardBlog
Orcinus
Ideofact
Letter from Gotham
Oraculations
INCITE
Positive Liberty
ALLAH IS IN THE HOUSE
Tiny Little Lies
My So-Called Penis
Keith Devens
Jason Holliston
W(h)ine Country
Straight White Guy
Ken MacLeod
Lawrence Lessig
solomonia.com/blog/
PaleoJudaica.com
EdCone.com
Common Sense and Wonder
Who knew?
Daily Howler
James Landrith
Chief Wiggles
L.T. Smash
damnum absque injuria
Daniel W. Drezner
OxBlog
Reason of Voice
Steven Den Beste
Wonkette!
Cranial Cavity
Gibberish in Neutral
DramaQueen
vivalabloog
Classics in Contemporary Culture
The LLama Butchers
flvbutton.gif
HobbsOnLine
ACIDMAN
Sector 7-G
Zogby Blog
mtpolitics.net
Horologium
Civic Dialogues
Practical Penumbra
Right Wing News
Stranger in a Strange Land
Ambient Irony
Tiger: Raggin' & Rantin'
Read My Lips
Jay Solo
The Alliance
The Smallest Minority
Wrong Side of Happiness
Wince and Nod
One Little Victory
Fishbucket
suburban blight
Sketches of Strain
Boi from Troy
Being American in T.O.
Outside the Beltway
One Fine Jay
Bill and Kent's Place on the Web
Burton Terrace
This Book Stinks
The Happy Carpenter
Political Correctness Watch
GREENIE WATCH
Resource.full
This Liberal"
Brainville
BLAMBLOG
Ordinary Galoot
QandO
Josh Cohen
Extra Ordinary Ideas
brykMantra
Croooow Blog
Old Right
commiewatch
Yourishweb.jpg
Proculian Meditations
UggaBugga
Dustin the No-Longer-Blogless
Les Jones Blog
Temporal Globe
Postcards from Nowhere
Tarazet
Unfogged
Synthstuff
Riba Rambles
Mitch Berg
The National Debate
scha-den-freu-de
Ocean Guy
Topic Exchange
CELESTIAL OFFERINGS
Texas Native
Somewhere over the Rainbough
Why read this?
End NPR Bias
Ace of Spades HQ
Web Dawn
GANGSTORIES
Sheila Astray's Redheaded Ramblings
Alan Sullivan (Seablogger)
hobbyblog
activistchat.com/blogiran/
FuturePundit.com
Tim Blair
A Voyage To Arcturus
HipperCritical
BarlowFriendz
Jihad Watch
Kin's Kouch
Bad Money
The Campblog
News Junkie Canada
De Doc's Doings
Bigwig
Eject!Eject!Eject!
Tom's Nap Room
A Coon Cat's World
The sexual adventures of Woodie and Peaches
Crystalline Ceramics Web Resource
Heh. Indeed.
NakedVillainy.com
Andrew David Chamberlain
The Karmic Inquisition
Adam Smith Institute Weblog
Andrea Harris
Hi. I'm Black
Banana Oil
Jim Miller on Politics
Who Tends the Fires
Ranck and File
MOLOTOV COCKTAIL FRANK
NOLI IRRITARE LEONES
Miss O'Hara
deadmaus
Coffee With Rhoads
robot guy
Travelling Shoes
Admiral Quixote's Roundtable
danm.us
The Argus
Dissecting Leftism
Dissecting Leftism -- OLD Site
Aaron's cc
Commentariat
The Argus - Registan
INDC Journal
Pundit Ex Machina
DeMythology
Peppermint Tea
Gilly's World
Beyond the Black Hole
La Shawn Barber"
FREE IRAN NEWS button
Perverse Access Memory
Invisible Adjunct
Photon Courier
Intel Dump
Junkscience.com
The SmarterCop
Laban Tall
Banagor
Peeve Farm
Rand Simberg
camedwards.com
Kim du Toit
Mrs. du Toit
Dancing with Dogs
Two--Four
Heretical Ideas
Astonished Head
Outlandish Josh
Central Oregon for Dean
ghostofaflea.com
The White Peril 白禍 (Sean Kinsell)
www.blktlr.com
Subterranean Bungalo
DFMoore
Dave Halliday
Well Versed
Qoheleth 60: Joel Moody's Repository
quo vado
jonrowe.blogspot.com
yellopad
Sticks of Fire
Dissecting Leftism
ByteMagick
Blogs of War
PRESTOPUNDIT
Of Interest
The Meatriarchy
Bernhardt Varenius
The Forager
Miller?s Time
Blogs of War
painting to stay (?) sane
Blue Goldfish | Surface
Clowning Glory
House of Payne International
Last Chance Caf馬t;/a>
Psychology of Leftism
a_sdf
CONSERVATISM/RIGHTISM
Taylor & Company
The Vicious Circle
Leftists as Elitists
Eye of the Storm
A scratch area
Wicked Thoughts
Filtrat
The Bayou City Perspective
The Belfry Blogger
Setting The World To Rights
Ljonn.com
Oddly Normal
Varifrank
Jamie Jamison on Technology
GayPatriot
A New York Escorts Confessions
jamescalvin.com
The Eleven Day Empire
Dr. Rusty Shackleford
Eric's Grumles Before The Grave
Belmont Club
Gumbo Pie
BeldarBlog
MooreThoughts
Blind Adherence
Last One Speaks
Logic Monkey
Bird's Eye View
DIRTY WATER
Forgadring
precision-guided cowboy
Punditmania
Minor Thoughts
Just Askin'
HispaLibertas
Let's Try Freedom
Megan McArdle
Ann Althouse
Beautiful Atrocities
Sean Hackbarth
Power and Control
Professor Bainbridge
Power Line
Dialogic
Darleen's Place
I'm N.O. Pundit!
Done With Mirrors
AMERICAN FUTURE
CodeBlueBlog
Gay Orbit
Urthshu
Zacht Ei
Interested-Participant
blake taylor
The Anchoress
Freespeech.com
Spiked
Decision '08 (Mark Coffey)
White Lightning Axiom: Redux
The Big Picture
Rachel Lucas BEI
John Cole
Haight Speech
evolution: on the loose
Moderates of all Nations, Unite!
Jeff Gannon
THE GLEESON BLOGLOMERATE
Pajama Pundits
Centerpiece
The Radical Centrist
Lab-Tested
FreedomSight
AmbivaBlog
evolution
Marx & Friends in their own words
Elective Application
Religion Research Islam Blog
YOUNGPUNDIT.COM
{finding peace in the chaos}
IQ & PC -- By Chris Brand
Classics in Contemporary Culture
Morse's Code
A&W
Bench Marx
Julie Neidlinger
Shades of Gray
The Daily Lion: NeoLibertarianism on a Stick
Miller's Time
Centerpiece
This Liberal
Coming Anarchy
Lay Lines
that'sRich
the blog eclectic
booklore
Yankee Madmen
Jesusland Expatriate
Amazing Motor Girls
Spiced Sass
Decline and Fall of Western Civilization
Modern Crusader
MaroonBlog
Skriblerier, etc.
I am partially fused with infinity
Eros Colored Glasses
Bill Peschel: The man comes around
The Twins Tell the Truth
wickens.ca
The War of Ideas
ConsterNations
EaglesUp Blog
Vitriolics Anonymous
DIRTY WATER
Mean Mr. Mustard 2.0
EDUCATION WATCH
THE RIGHT SCALE
AIS Knight Hammer
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE
The Argus
DON'T BE DUMB!
Blue Goldfish | Surface
GUN WATCH
De Docs Institute for Memetic Engineering And Polymaths...
Wordpress Test Weblog
Kapowie Zone
Political Theory: Weblogs
You know, they say...
all blogged down
Harkonnendog
Big Dirigible
GeoPoliticalreview.com
Coyote Blog
Blog Retrofuturistic
VietPundit
JasonColeman.com
Logical Meme
Bloggledygook
Discursive Recursions
Bird's Eye View
Right Wing Nut House
ELEMENOHPEE
Locusts and Honey
Moonbattery
The Everlasting Phelps
Mythusmage Opines
The Cassandra Page
Of Arms & the Law
The Daily Bork
Strange Stuff
Another Gay Republican
Libertarian Man of Mystery
Liberty Just In Case
TalkLeft
Joe's Dartblog
Iowa Hawk
The Common Room
Darth Vader
Gay Bipolar Republican
Boxing Alcibiades
Baby TrollBlog
Strange Fictions
Urban Hermit
The Eye of Polyphemus
Toe In The Water
Bryan's Basement
Fishkite
Right on the Left Coast
Beltway Buzz
pike speak
Scared Monkeys
The Mudville Gazette
Matt Sheffield
Undercaffeinated
Trey Jackson
NashvilleFiles.com
Moonbat Central
Dust my Broom
The Cliffs of Insanity
Riding Sun
The Modo Blog
Philly Future
philly
Off In The Tall Weeds
Doug Petch.Com
Gays for Life
the True Nature of Reality
Spinning Clio
Mike Huckabee President 2008
A.E.Brain
that rogueclassicist guy
A M㯠Invis�l
Constantly Risking Absurdity
Laurence Simon
Notes & Musings
A World of Speculation
Weird Events
Pit Bull Wars
New World Man
Mark in Mexico
The Palmetto Pundit
All Things Jen(nifer)
Generic Confusion
Justus for All
iHillary
Michael Totten
Don Surber
Maggie's Farm
Unpaid Punditry Corps
The Counter Hippie
Kicking On Doors
FunnyBusiness
Restless Mania
Mark Tapscott
nobody sasses a girl in glasses
Letters from the Bostonian Exile
The Education Wonks
Diana Hseih
just muttering
Right-Wing of the Gods
Michelle Malkin
Inside Larry's Head
Ballpoint Wren
A Blog For All
The Liberal Wrong
American Outlook
Splog Reporter
From the Grand Stand
Tinabell
Affordable Housing Institute
mudphud
Living In The Past
Searchlight Crusade
Gus Van Horn
Ian Schwartz
One Billion Red Chinese and a Dog Named Liberty
Suburban Bourgeois
The Metropolis Times
DR. HELEN
Philadelphia AIDS Thrift
Sir Humphrey's
Birth Story
The Simplest Thing
Blue Star Chronicles
One Stack Mind
Cathy Young
Neocon Express
A A R D V A R K
World Climate Report
Apartment 604
Yelling at the Windshield
Kimdergarten/
ShrinkWrapped
The Bear Cave
X marks the blogspot
CARRY ON AMERICA
Jim Rose
Kiril, The Mad Macedonian
Signal 94
Pseudo-Polymath
The International Libertarian
Gates of Vienna
California Sojourn
The Liberty Papers
Barcepundit
A. Jacksonian
Jon Swift
Tim Maguire
Three Sticks
Asymmetric
Dog Politics
OregonGuy
Little Miss Attila
Buuuuurrrrning Hot
AGENT BEDHEAD
Tygrrrr Express
David Harsanyi
Snowflakes in Hell
Earnest Iconoclast
Eternity Road
Musings of the GeekWithA.45
Total Survivalist Libertarian Rantfest
Argue With Everyone Political Forum
Nathan J. Winograd
Assistant Village Idiot
Parkway Rest Stop
Grouchy Old Cripple
Technicalities
Coalition of the Swilling
TigerHawk
Mary Madigan
Sad Old Goth
Erica Sherman
Joated

Ezra Levant
Kathy Shaidle
Free Dominion
Small Dead Animals
Habitation of Justice
GAYS DEFEND MARRIAGE
IEC Fusion Technology Blog
John Bambenek
Adventures in Existence
The Discerning Observer
Economists for McCain
Opining Online
The North Coast
the CAMPVS
The Michigan Review
FMG
Kejda Gjermani
South Carolina
American Glob
Breitbart.com
BigHollywood
BigGovernment
The Truth Laid Bear
Kagogi the Destroyer
Socrates' Academy
jpfoUSA.gif
Armed and Dangerous

SupportDenmarkSmall2EN.png
holocausthp.jpg

Vin Suprynowicz


Tongue Tied
Link to Samizdata - please save the button to your own 

server

My Watergate Blog

rhino_sm.jpg



pj-button-04.gif

The Neolibertarian Network

BUMPERBANstupsm_1_.jpg



Syndicate this site (XML)







Blogroll Classical Values!

Search Popdex:


Pssst!

Wanna get on the Classical Values blogroll?

linkhead.gif Don?t bang your head!

Please send me an email and let me know, because although I try to keep up, sometimes I have trouble finding every last link.



Site Credits



classicalvalues.com

classicalvalues.com

(Link buttons)