Potentially bad news

I hope this story is not true:

(London) As Iraq sinks closer and closer to all-out civil war the country's most influential Shiite cleric, Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, is reportedly calling for death to gays and Sunni Moslems.

Sunni Arabs, who have run Iraq since its creation nearly 90 years ago, total barely a fifth of the population are involved in bitter armed battled with Shiites.

Sistani, a native Iraqi who was trained in Iran, has emerged as one of the country's leading figures in the push by Shiites for an Islamic republic.

His heavily armed Badr Corps was trained by the Iranian military in the 1980s.

The armed wing of the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, it was brought into the government by U.S. officials in 2003.

But the Corps, believed to have about 20,000 men, is now suspected of running death squads in the Iraqi police. Estimated to have perhaps.

On his Web site, used to communicate with Shiite masses throughout the country, Sistani this week issued a fatwa against Sunnis and gays.

He urges followers to kill homosexuals in the "worst, most severe way".

"Sistani's murderous homophobic incitement has given a green light to Shia Muslims to hunt and kill lesbians and gay men,” says exiled gay Iraqi, Ali Hili, of the London-based gay human rights group OutRage.

Hili also heads up the new Iraqi LGBT – UK Abu Nawas group, which consists of exiled gay Iraqis and has close links with clandestine gay activists inside Iraq.

"We hold Sistani personally responsible for the murder of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Iraqis. He gives the killers theological sanction and encouragement,” Hili in a statement on Wednesday.

Hili accused the West of allowing Sistani and the Badr Corps to go on a witch-hunt of lesbian and gay Iraqis.

"Despite Badr’s murderous record, the UK allows its political arm, SCIRI, to have offices and fundraise in the UK. Badr is the terrorist wing of SCIRI. Badr should be proscribed as a terrorist organization," said Hili.

He also alleged that Badr militants are entrapping gay men via internet chat rooms.

"They arrange a date, and then beat and kill the victim," Hili said.

(Via Dean Esmay.) More here.

I hope it's not true, as I wouldn't want to think that my tax dollars (or American lives) are helping to support someone like that. For now, it's mostly being reported on gay sites. I'd want to see it confirmed in some of the larger mainstream news sites before jumping to some very unsettling conclusions. (Not just about Iraq, but about moderate Islam. Sigh. This is the sort of thing I expect from Hamas. But then, we're not supposed to be supporting Hamas.)

UPDATE: A recent Wikipedia entry gives reason to suspect that the report about Sistani may be inaccurate:

On March 16th, 2006, Sistani was blamed for issuing an edict that declared that homosexuality and lesbianism are "forbidden" and that gay people should be killed. However, there are numerous reasons to doubt this unsubstantiated claim. The source for this claim also stated that he was the leader of the Badr Corps and SCIRI: he is not. The probably false edict also stated that Sunnis should be attacked: this goes against Sistani's own previous fatwas.
Skepticism is a good thing in dealing with reports like this. (I noticed that some of the reports are urging people to show up at an antiwar demo in London this weekend.)

UPDATE (03/19/06): Writing for Indybay, Juan Cole says much of the Sistani report is untrue:

the charge leveled by some, and mentioned at Pandagon, that Sistani has called for the killing of Sunnis, is completely untrue. The implication given by exiled gay Iraqi, Ali Hili, of the London-based gay human rights group OutRage, that Sistani has called for vigilante killings of gays, is untrue, though it is accurate that Sistani advises that the state make homosexual activity a capital crime; it is also accurate to call this "sick."
Cole also points out that the Sistani "fatwas" which are being cited involved "adult men penetrating boys." Moreover, Sistani, claims Cole, "does not have or even claim the right to impose a death penalty on individuals for their activities."
In contemporary Iraq, the legality of homosexuality would be determined by statute passed by parliament (or by provincial assemblies), and if it were illegal, sentencing would be carried out by civil judges. Sistani is here acting as a jurisconsult, saying what he thinks Islamic canon law requires. But Iraq is not governed, or not solely governed, by shariah or Islamic canon law.

The Iraqi constitution adopted on October 15 contains a provision that no law be passed directly contradicting the established laws of Islam, but another article says that no law may be passed that is contrary to human rights standards. Given that homosexuality has never been such a big an issue in the Middle East (and for long stretches some sort of homosociality was accepted elite practice) that its prohibition would rise to the level of an "established" Islamic law (thawabit ahkam al-Islam), one wonders if Iraqi law will really take this direction. Certainly, it would not be in accord with the other provision, concerning basic human rights.

What prompted Cole's post was an outcry by a blogger who treated the Sistani rumor as true, and then stated that there were only "a few degrees of separation" between Sistani and "Christofascists" (fundamentalists in Asheville, North Carolina.) Interestingly, the post drew a number of comments pointing out that it would have been out of character for Sistani to issue such statements. Here's one:
Huh. Something smells here. For starters, Sistani is not the head of either SCIRI or the Badr Corps; he stays out of politics. Sistani is a moderate. He’s called for unity between Sunnis and Shi’ites several times, and he’s repeatedly ordered Shia not to respond in kind to Sunni acts of violence. In at least one case that I personally know of, he summoned Muqtada Sadr to Najaf and reamed him out for causing death and pain to Iraqis in the name of power. He’s expressed no opinion about homosexuals in at least two years. For him to issue a fatwa on either group is not like him.

Something really smells here. To, to recap:

1.Not the leader of these groups.
2. Not known for homophobia.
3. Has issued fatwas, but they tend to be in the nature of calming things down, not stirring things up.

There’s that word ‘reportedly’ there which makes me wonder what actually is going on. But I find this almost impossible to believe.

It's beginning to look like a hoax. (Maybe an op of some sort, I suppose....)

posted by Eric on 03.18.06 at 09:56 PM





TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://classicalvalues.com/cgi-bin/pings.cgi/3418






Comments

I lean towards the hoax explanation of this situation. It sounded 'unlikely' in context when I first heard it and it sounds increasingly dubious now.

That said--- Anyone who has any expectation that ANY Muslim cleric(much less an Ayatollah), will ever issue anything other than condemnation of homosexuality is living in a fantasy world.

They DO consider it to be a PERVERSION, and something to be ostracised and penalised. They are very serious about this. I am therefore somewhat amused when 'gay' groups line up in defense of Muslim victims of Bush's policies.

Whatever else might be happening this is like Jews defending the Nazis. You can be Muslim, and you can be 'gay'. You can't be both. Or rather you can't be both OPENLY, and expect to be a happy camper in any Islamic society.

I doubt that Sistani said exactly these things. I have a very large suspicion, he believes at least the 'gay' related stuff.

dougf   ·  March 19, 2006 02:27 PM

Zeyad at healingiraq.com is as reliable as iraqthemodel.com, in my experience, and he translates a page from the Ayatollah's own website - sistani.org -as saying exactly that:

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/archives/2006_03_01_healingiraq_archive.html#114261229300178066

I couldn't find anything of the sort on the English-language site: http://www.sistani.org/html/eng/

Now, as someone who agrees that the Ayatollah deserves a Nobel, I'd like to point out that this passage does not mean that he thinks himself entitled to enforce this law,that he "issued a fatwa this week" or is making an issue out of it. I suspect that these gay activists for the sake of "antiwar" appeal.

I cannot justify the same suspicion of Zeyad, however, and I can't defend the Ayatollah on this point.

James M   ·  March 19, 2006 08:40 PM

Now, as an Ashevillian, let me call attention to something that was mentioned but downplayed in the "Christofascists" post.

Several weeks ago, the Wolf Laurel ski resort, up north of here, ceased to purchase photography services from a buiness owned and run by a pair of lesbians. The lesbians went to the papers and politicians and made themselves a cause celebre, and state legislator Susan Fisher (D-Buncombe) called for a law forbidding antigay discrimination.

The rally was a response to this call to criminalize boycotts and ostracism of people who engage in practices of which the ralliers disapprove.

My own position: When Rep. Susan Fisher opened her mouth, the issue stopped being whether Wolf Laurel was right to take their business to another firm, and became a matter of their right to do so. That's a matter of freedom of association.

James M   ·  March 19, 2006 08:52 PM


December 2006
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            

ANCIENT (AND MODERN)
WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR


Search the Site


E-mail

escheie_[AT]_yahoo_DOT_com




Classics To Go

Classical Values PDA Link

What ancient form of execution would you LEAST prefer?
Buried alive
Crucifixion
Flayed alive
Scourged to death
Stung/bitten to death by insects
Slow disembowelment
Roasted on grill
Dragged from chariot
Torn apart by wild beasts
Rolled downhill inside spiked barrel
Death of a thousand cuts
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com


Archives




Recent Entries



Links



Alphecca (My Blogdaddy)



Puff the Protector


Andrew Sullivan

Gays in Military Site

Middle East Media Research Institute

Gay Libertarian Site
The Bitch Girls
Join the NRA!


SECOND AMENDMENT VIDEO!

Shooters' Carnival

Tammy Bruce
Gun Owners of America
goalogox.gif

front_cover.jpg
KerryCom.gif
fighting101sSm.jpg
David Hackworth
ElectricVenom.com
SgtStryker.com
Hell In A Handbasket
Matt Welch
The Volokh Conspiracy
Virginia Postrel
PseudoPsalms
The Light of Reason
The Anger of Compassion
Anger Management
Dustbury.com
Rachel Lucas
Shadow Government
reflections in d minor
JustOneMinute
Boone Country
Catallarchy
Roger L. Simon Button
Agenda Bender
Mike Silverman
Steven Malcolm Anderson
Walter in Denver
Impearls
Donald Sensing
Howard Owens
Loco Parentis
imao15.jpg
Colby Cosh
VodkaPundit
Radley Balko
Dean's World
The Queen of All Evil
baldilocks
Joe Gandelman
Dave Tepper
Begging to Differ
Kesher Talk
Jeff Jarvis
Doc Searls
Little Green Footballs
Captain Ed
Oh, That Liberal Media!
ICANNfocus.org
God of the Machine
Sandefur's Freespace
Wizbang
Robert Prather
LawPundit
adrcircle.jpgThe Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Amygdala
bilious young fogey
MadLab
On the Fritz
why dave bergman is neat
Skiplog
Clowning Glory
Dispatches from the Culture Wars
Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon?
Anti-Socialist Tendencies
Of Interest
WICKED THOUGHTS
Setting The World To Rights
doubleplusgood infotainment
It Can't Rain All The Time
Scrutineer
Nick Danger, International Man of Mystery
seldom sober
TRITICALE
Random Jottings
Graham Lester
point2point
Shark Blog
Gene Healy
Discount Blogger
Six Foot Pole
Dodgeblogium
Across the Atlantic
The Imperialist Dog
Lex Talionis
Mind Of Mog
Say Uncle
CAMPVS MAWRTIVS
res gestae dionysii
Annika's Journal & Poetry
A :{FRUSTRATED}: ARTIST
Yet another weird SF fan
Lincoln Cat
The Meatriarchy
Who is Ronald?
Short Daddy
Punch Drunk
Mookie Riffic
On The Third Hand
MatthewEdgar.net
ZenPundit
Jennifer's History and Stuff
blogcrit-button.gif
argghhh!!!
Modulator
D.C. Thornton
Centerfield
Asymmetrical Information
Airline Pilots Security Assn
Relapsed Catholic
PAPADOC
Abraca-Pocus
The Pryhills
Winds of Change
Daily Pundit
The Speculist
Regnum Crucis
The Elfin Ethicist
Classics in Contemporary Culture
elephant-rabbits
A Perfectly Cromulent Blog
allied
Parableman
Southern Musings
CALIFORNIA YANKEE
Allen's Arena
Ex-Gay Watch
Jonno
Michael Moore doesn't love me!
Eschaton
Clayton Cramer
Letters From a Strip of Dirt
Oliver Willis
Hesiod Theogeny
Dr Zen
JunkYardBlog
Orcinus
Ideofact
Letter from Gotham
Oraculations
INCITE
Positive Liberty
ALLAH IS IN THE HOUSE
Tiny Little Lies
My So-Called Penis
Keith Devens
Jason Holliston
W(h)ine Country
Straight White Guy
Ken MacLeod
Lawrence Lessig
solomonia.com/blog/
PaleoJudaica.com
EdCone.com
Common Sense and Wonder
Who knew?
Daily Howler
James Landrith
Chief Wiggles
L.T. Smash
damnum absque injuria
Daniel W. Drezner
OxBlog
Reason of Voice
Steven Den Beste
Wonkette!
Cranial Cavity
Gibberish in Neutral
DramaQueen
vivalabloog
Classics in Contemporary Culture
The LLama Butchers
flvbutton.gif
HobbsOnLine
ACIDMAN
Sector 7-G
Zogby Blog
mtpolitics.net
Horologium
Civic Dialogues
Practical Penumbra
Right Wing News
Stranger in a Strange Land
Ambient Irony
Tiger: Raggin' & Rantin'
Read My Lips
Jay Solo
The Alliance
The Smallest Minority
Wrong Side of Happiness
Wince and Nod
One Little Victory
Fishbucket
suburban blight
Sketches of Strain
Boi from Troy
Being American in T.O.
Outside the Beltway
One Fine Jay
Bill and Kent's Place on the Web
Burton Terrace
This Book Stinks
The Happy Carpenter
Political Correctness Watch
GREENIE WATCH
Resource.full
This Liberal"
Brainville
BLAMBLOG
Ordinary Galoot
QandO
Josh Cohen
Extra Ordinary Ideas
brykMantra
Croooow Blog
Old Right
commiewatch
Yourishweb.jpg
Proculian Meditations
UggaBugga
Dustin the No-Longer-Blogless
Les Jones Blog
Temporal Globe
Postcards from Nowhere
Tarazet
Unfogged
Synthstuff
Riba Rambles
Mitch Berg
The National Debate
scha-den-freu-de
Ocean Guy
Topic Exchange
CELESTIAL OFFERINGS
Texas Native
Somewhere over the Rainbough
Why read this?
End NPR Bias
Ace of Spades HQ
Web Dawn
GANGSTORIES
Sheila Astray's Redheaded Ramblings
Alan Sullivan (Seablogger)
hobbyblog
activistchat.com/blogiran/
FuturePundit.com
Tim Blair
A Voyage To Arcturus
HipperCritical
BarlowFriendz
Jihad Watch
Kin's Kouch
Bad Money
The Campblog
News Junkie Canada
De Doc's Doings
Bigwig
Eject!Eject!Eject!
Tom's Nap Room
A Coon Cat's World
The sexual adventures of Woodie and Peaches
Crystalline Ceramics Web Resource
Heh. Indeed.
NakedVillainy.com
Andrew David Chamberlain
The Karmic Inquisition
Adam Smith Institute Weblog
Andrea Harris
Hi. I'm Black
Banana Oil
Jim Miller on Politics
Who Tends the Fires
Ranck and File
MOLOTOV COCKTAIL FRANK
NOLI IRRITARE LEONES
Miss O'Hara
deadmaus
Coffee With Rhoads
robot guy
Travelling Shoes
Admiral Quixote's Roundtable
danm.us
The Argus
Dissecting Leftism
Dissecting Leftism -- OLD Site
Aaron's cc
Commentariat
The Argus - Registan
INDC Journal
Pundit Ex Machina
DeMythology
Peppermint Tea
Gilly's World
Beyond the Black Hole
La Shawn Barber"
FREE IRAN NEWS button
Perverse Access Memory
Invisible Adjunct
Photon Courier
Intel Dump
Junkscience.com
The SmarterCop
Laban Tall
Banagor
Peeve Farm
Rand Simberg
camedwards.com
Kim du Toit
Mrs. du Toit
Dancing with Dogs
Two--Four
Heretical Ideas
Astonished Head
Outlandish Josh
Central Oregon for Dean
ghostofaflea.com
The White Peril 白禍 (Sean Kinsell)
www.blktlr.com
Subterranean Bungalo
DFMoore
Dave Halliday
Well Versed
Qoheleth 60: Joel Moody's Repository
quo vado
jonrowe.blogspot.com
yellopad
Sticks of Fire
Dissecting Leftism
ByteMagick
Blogs of War
PRESTOPUNDIT
Of Interest
The Meatriarchy
Bernhardt Varenius
The Forager
Miller?s Time
Blogs of War
painting to stay (?) sane
Blue Goldfish | Surface
Clowning Glory
House of Payne International
Last Chance Caf馬t;/a>
Psychology of Leftism
a_sdf
CONSERVATISM/RIGHTISM
Taylor & Company
The Vicious Circle
Leftists as Elitists
Eye of the Storm
A scratch area
Wicked Thoughts
Filtrat
The Bayou City Perspective
The Belfry Blogger
Setting The World To Rights
Ljonn.com
Oddly Normal
Varifrank
Jamie Jamison on Technology
GayPatriot
A New York Escorts Confessions
jamescalvin.com
The Eleven Day Empire
Dr. Rusty Shackleford
Eric's Grumles Before The Grave
Belmont Club
Gumbo Pie
BeldarBlog
MooreThoughts
Blind Adherence
Last One Speaks
Logic Monkey
Bird's Eye View
DIRTY WATER
Forgadring
precision-guided cowboy
Punditmania
Minor Thoughts
Just Askin'
HispaLibertas
Let's Try Freedom
Megan McArdle
Ann Althouse
Beautiful Atrocities
Sean Hackbarth
Power and Control
Professor Bainbridge
Power Line
Dialogic
Darleen's Place
I'm N.O. Pundit!
Done With Mirrors
AMERICAN FUTURE
CodeBlueBlog
Gay Orbit
Urthshu
Zacht Ei
Interested-Participant
blake taylor
The Anchoress
Freespeech.com
Spiked
Decision '08 (Mark Coffey)
White Lightning Axiom: Redux
The Big Picture
Rachel Lucas BEI
John Cole
Haight Speech
evolution: on the loose
Moderates of all Nations, Unite!
Jeff Gannon
THE GLEESON BLOGLOMERATE
Pajama Pundits
Centerpiece
The Radical Centrist
Lab-Tested
FreedomSight
AmbivaBlog
evolution
Marx & Friends in their own words
Elective Application
Religion Research Islam Blog
YOUNGPUNDIT.COM
{finding peace in the chaos}
IQ & PC -- By Chris Brand
Classics in Contemporary Culture
Morse's Code
A&W
Bench Marx
Julie Neidlinger
Shades of Gray
The Daily Lion: NeoLibertarianism on a Stick
Miller's Time
Centerpiece
This Liberal
Coming Anarchy
Lay Lines
that'sRich
the blog eclectic
booklore
Yankee Madmen
Jesusland Expatriate
Amazing Motor Girls
Spiced Sass
Decline and Fall of Western Civilization
Modern Crusader
MaroonBlog
Skriblerier, etc.
I am partially fused with infinity
Eros Colored Glasses
Bill Peschel: The man comes around
The Twins Tell the Truth
wickens.ca
The War of Ideas
ConsterNations
EaglesUp Blog
Vitriolics Anonymous
DIRTY WATER
Mean Mr. Mustard 2.0
EDUCATION WATCH
THE RIGHT SCALE
AIS Knight Hammer
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE
The Argus
DON'T BE DUMB!
Blue Goldfish | Surface
GUN WATCH
De Docs Institute for Memetic Engineering And Polymaths...
Wordpress Test Weblog
Kapowie Zone
Political Theory: Weblogs
You know, they say...
all blogged down
Harkonnendog
Big Dirigible
GeoPoliticalreview.com
Coyote Blog
Blog Retrofuturistic
VietPundit
JasonColeman.com
Logical Meme
Bloggledygook
Discursive Recursions
Bird's Eye View
Right Wing Nut House
ELEMENOHPEE
Locusts and Honey
Moonbattery
The Everlasting Phelps
Mythusmage Opines
The Cassandra Page
Of Arms & the Law
The Daily Bork
Strange Stuff
Another Gay Republican
Libertarian Man of Mystery
Liberty Just In Case
TalkLeft
Joe's Dartblog
Iowa Hawk
The Common Room
Darth Vader
Gay Bipolar Republican
Boxing Alcibiades
Baby TrollBlog
Strange Fictions
Urban Hermit
The Eye of Polyphemus
Toe In The Water
Bryan's Basement
Fishkite
Right on the Left Coast
Beltway Buzz
pike speak
Scared Monkeys
The Mudville Gazette
Matt Sheffield
Undercaffeinated
Trey Jackson
NashvilleFiles.com
Moonbat Central
Dust my Broom
The Cliffs of Insanity
Riding Sun
The Modo Blog
Philly Future
philly
Off In The Tall Weeds
Doug Petch.Com
Gays for Life
the True Nature of Reality
Spinning Clio
Mike Huckabee President 2008
A.E.Brain
that rogueclassicist guy
A M㯠Invisí¶¥l
Constantly Risking Absurdity
Laurence Simon
Notes & Musings
A World of Speculation
Weird Events
Pit Bull Wars
New World Man
Mark in Mexico
The Palmetto Pundit
All Things Jen(nifer)
Generic Confusion
Justus for All
iHillary
Michael Totten
Don Surber
Maggie's Farm
Unpaid Punditry Corps
The Counter Hippie
Kicking On Doors
FunnyBusiness
Restless Mania
Mark Tapscott
nobody sasses a girl in glasses
Letters from the Bostonian Exile
The Education Wonks
Diana Hseih
just muttering
Right-Wing of the Gods
Michelle Malkin
Inside Larry's Head
Ballpoint Wren
A Blog For All
The Liberal Wrong
American Outlook
Splog Reporter
From the Grand Stand
Tinabell
Affordable Housing Institute
mudphud
Living In The Past
Searchlight Crusade
Gus Van Horn
Ian Schwartz
One Billion Red Chinese and a Dog Named Liberty
Suburban Bourgeois
The Metropolis Times
DR. HELEN
Philadelphia AIDS Thrift
Sir Humphrey's
Birth Story
The Simplest Thing
Blue Star Chronicles
One Stack Mind
Cathy Young
Neocon Express
A A R D V A R K
World Climate Report
Apartment 604
Yelling at the Windshield
Kimdergarten/
ShrinkWrapped
The Bear Cave
X marks the blogspot
CARRY ON AMERICA
Jim Rose
Kiril, The Mad Macedonian
Signal 94
Pseudo-Polymath
The International Libertarian
Gates of Vienna
California Sojourn
The Liberty Papers
Barcepundit
A. Jacksonian
Jon Swift
Tim Maguire
Three Sticks
Asymmetric
Dog Politics
OregonGuy
Little Miss Attila
Buuuuurrrrning Hot
AGENT BEDHEAD
THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
David Harsanyi
Snowflakes in Hell
Earnest Iconoclast
Eternity Road
Musings of the GeekWithA.45
Total Survivalist Libertarian Rantfest
Argue With Everyone Political Forum
Nathan J. Winograd
Assistant Village Idiot
Parkway Rest Stop
Grouchy Old Cripple
Technicalities
Coalition of the Swilling
TigerHawk
Mary Madigan
Sad Old Goth
Erica Sherman
Joated

Ezra Levant
Kathy Shaidle
Free Dominion
Small Dead Animals
Habitation of Justice
GAYS DEFEND MARRIAGE
IEC Fusion Technology Blog
John Bambenek
The Truth Laid Bear
Socrates' Academy
jpfoUSA.gif
Armed and Dangerous

SupportDenmarkSmall2EN.png
holocausthp.jpg

Vin Suprynowicz


Tongue Tied
Link to Samizdata - please save the button to your own 

server

My Watergate Blog

rhino_sm.jpg



pj-button-04.gif

The Neolibertarian Network

BUMPERBANstupsm_1_.jpg



Syndicate this site (XML)







Blogroll Classical Values!

Search Popdex:


Pssst!

Wanna get on the Classical Values blogroll?

linkhead.gif Don?t bang your head!

Please send me an email and let me know, because although I try to keep up, sometimes I have trouble finding every last link.



Site Credits



classicalvalues.com

classicalvalues.com

(Link buttons)