Justin had a fun post (about ID) yesterday, although I didn't get back till midnight so I didn't see it until this morning.
In my view, the problem stems from a lack of agreement on what God is (and of course whether God is). Not surprising. If God is an infinite spiritual force which existed before man, then man is by nature incapable of defining God, or deciding upon the attributes of God or gods, or knowing what God does or might have done. (Certainly, there is no way to do this which can be agreed upon; hence the plethora of religions.)
"Intelligence," however, is a creation of man, defined, measured, and tested by man.
Attributing "intelligence" to God presupposes than man can understand God. But which men? Which God?
Some people think man can understand God, that God can be reduced to a textual format, and that God is "intelligent." Others think God is a spiritual force which cannot be measured. And others think there is no God and no spirituality.
IMHO, government should not get involved in this debate. "Intelligent design" (as I've argued before) rests on two assumptions: one, that God designed life and man, and the other that this was "intelligent." Based on the physical evidence, one could just as easily make the argument that God was "stupid." Why not "stupid design"? The whole thing is crazy, and is based on religious assumptions and speculation. This is not to knock anyone's religious views or lack thereof; only to say that I see a First Amendment issue with the government taking a stand for the religious proposition that God is "intelligent."
It should not be forgotten, for example, that some people say Allah is intelligent. Others think he's stupid and bigoted. Or fraudulent.
But regardless of anyone's religious views or lack thereof, I just don't see how it is possible for human beings to assess the intelligence of deities -- especially in a scientific manner.
However, I may be wrong. So in the classical tradition of this blog, I'm going to submit this question to our panel of experts.
The Rev. George Coyne, the Jesuit director of the Vatican Observatory, said placing intelligent design theory alongside that of evolution in school programs was "wrong" and was akin to mixing apples with oranges.
"Intelligent design isn't science even though it pretends to be," the ANSA news agency quoted Coyne as saying on the sidelines of a conference in Florence. "If you want to teach it in schools, intelligent design should be taught when religion or cultural history is taught, not science."
posted by Eric on 11.17.05 at 08:14 AM
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I would strongly disagree with the assumption that intelligence is something that human beings create. No, intelligence is something that human beings experience, and then sometimes futily try to define having experienced it. Like any aspect of our own consciousness that takes in so much of what we are, intelligence transcends our understanding, because a finite consciousness can in no way come close to fully conceptualizing itself as an entity. Imagine trying to fully model the behavior of a computer on software running on that same computer, and you'll see why - your mind is simply not capacious enough to do as you ask, because its very capaciousness makes the task increasingly complex.
Yes, the gods are intelligent, I would say, and our intelligence is but a pale shadow of their own.
What we call "intelligence" is a human word, a human judgment, a human concept, and a human measurement. Although it can be applied to non human (even non-living) things, it is inherent in understanding or measuring intelligence that it be capable of identification, ascertainment, quantification.
Computers are built by humans and their output is capable of measurement. On what basis can it be asserted that an entity which cannot be seen, measured, or defined in terms we can all agree upon is intelligent? Why isn't it just as reasonable to assert that such an entity is stupid? While I would agree that God is intelligent, I can't prove it, and I'm not sure human measurements (which intelligence is) can be applied.
(Considering the ideas some humans have attributed to some of their gods, I do not think they are all necessarily intelligent.)
Men and women were created in the image of the Gods and the Goddesses, therefore, we can know the Deities by analogy, as in myth. A Deity is a personal being of intelligence and will, on a higher level of infinity, eternity, and supreme holiness. Otherwise, you are merely talking about an abstraction. I do not worship an abstraction.
Maybe the gods are clumsy, not stupid. Remember the far side cartoon of the pristine wilderness marred by humans escaping a broken jar? The thought bubble, pointing up: "uh oh". Or maybe it was "oops", but you get the idea.
There are a lot of things that may be true about God and gods, and while I have my own opinions I'm not trying to take sides here; only to point out why I don't think it's wise for the government to get involved.
I agree that government should stay out of it. If you're talking about public schools, I don't think they're should be public schools. What we need is vouchers so that parents can choose their own private schools to send their children to and teach them whatever creation myths (including evolution) they want. That's the only way we're ever going to resolve this problem.
Short of that, leave it up to the local elected school boards and PTAs to decide and keep the federal government (including the courts) out of it. The federal government has no Constitutional jurisdiction over schools. We need to get back to the Tenth Amendment.
The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Don?t bang your head!
I would strongly disagree with the assumption that intelligence is something that human beings create. No, intelligence is something that human beings experience, and then sometimes futily try to define having experienced it. Like any aspect of our own consciousness that takes in so much of what we are, intelligence transcends our understanding, because a finite consciousness can in no way come close to fully conceptualizing itself as an entity. Imagine trying to fully model the behavior of a computer on software running on that same computer, and you'll see why - your mind is simply not capacious enough to do as you ask, because its very capaciousness makes the task increasingly complex.
Yes, the gods are intelligent, I would say, and our intelligence is but a pale shadow of their own.