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August 21, 2005
Right wing stifles another cherished American right!
La Shawn Barber has had it with annoying trackbacks, and I don't blame her. I don't like them either, but I'm sure she gets far more than I do because of her status as an outspoken black conservative. Lots of bloggers don't allow trackbacks, but if you do, prepare for annoyances. Anything from spam trackbacks, trackbacks from abusive posts, parasitic trackbacks that link to posts not mentioning the post they've tracked back -- and all of these take up space at your blog. Whether to have trackbacks at all is a personal decision. How La Shawn might deal with them should be no one's business but hers. Anyway, her policy is simply not to allow (in addition to spam and non-referring links) libelous or insulting linkings to be appear as trackbacks on her blog: 4) Trackbacks leading to offensive, ad hominem-laced, and/or libelous posts where I’m the subject will be deleted. Habitual offenders will be permanently banned.For most bloggers, the idea that anyone should have the right to put a trackback on someone else's blog would be absurd. Not to La Shawn's critics (Pandagon and Atrios). They seem to think they have a right not only to savage her and libel her, but to require her to help facilitate the insults and the libels. Huh? Let me try to make sense of this if I can. Here's Pandagon: Permanent banning from having LaShawn Barber readers attack other blogs for her being wrong? Glory be, what's this world coming to?I'll let you know when I find out. But right now I'm having a lot of trouble understanding know what is meant by "readers attack[ing] other blogs for her [La Shawn] being wrong." What the? La Shawn never said anything about that, nor would she, as it makes no sense. Suppose I thought La Shawn was wrong. I might disagree with her (for example, on whether the Iraq War should be analyzed in terms of whether it harms conservatism), but why on earth would I "attack" another blog for anything La Shawn said? (If I did, it would be clear evidence that I'd developed full-blown Alzheimers.) Anyway, Pandagon continues: I tell you - back when I started blogging, we had to deal with real trolls - people who sat around posting upwards of a hundred comments a day on every post you wrote, almost never doing anything other than attacking you personally. As it is, the standard on the conservative side of the blogosphere for "attacking" seems to have devolved to "disagreement".It has? I suggest that disagreeing with Cindy Sheehan, however rationally, is one of the best ways to be accused of "attacking" -- a phenomenon I saw similarly at work with the uproar over Jamie Gorelick. I think most fair minded people can see the difference between disagreement and personal attacks, but I also think politics invites the blurring of this distinction. What I do not see is any evidence that La Shawn's trackback policy in any way defines disagreements as "attacks." Insulting language, ad hominem attacks, and libels are not mere disagreements, and libel goes way beyond ordinary political attack, even of the ad hominem variety. I've been deleted and/or banned from several conservative blogs for simply disagreeing, not because I was "vulgar" or "profane", but simply because I showed up, had a different opinion, and dared to actually put it on their site.While I don't know the details of how Pandagon got "banned from several conservative blogs for simply disagreeing," what does it have to do with La Shawn's trackback policy? And where are La Shawn's "hurt feelings" to be found? How did La Shawn say that she would tolerate nothing "other than degrees of agreement"? There are certain sites that I hold responsible for their commenters - LGF, for example, which despite Chuck J.'s implorations to the contrary, does everything in its power to promote rabid and violent hatred as a matter of course.Isn't there a contradiction in holding LGF responsible for commenters, while slamming La Shawn for wanting to do the same thing? I'm also wondering precisely how anyone would go about doing everything in his power to promote what he implores people not to do, and I'd like to know, but it's getting off topic. As is any discussion of LGF commenters, really -- for what have they to do with La Shawn's trackback policy? Most other sites, though, I just don't care. Pandagon is hard enough to enforce, and we're not a comment machine like other sites. Trying to enact Barber's policy on a site like Atrios or the Washington Monthly, for example, would be a headache of the utmost degree, particularly given the definition of libel that includes a lot of shit that's in no way libelous.That's an interesting definition, but it's contradictory, as libel is a legal definition. I looked at the definition La Shawn cited (rather straightforward as legal definitions go), but "a lot of shit that's in no way libelous" just didn't stare me in the face. I guess the big question now is how offensive do we need to be before no liberal blog is allowed to trackback to LaShawn Barber again? And when can we start?At the risk of sounding like a Nazi, since when did anyone -- liberal, conservative, moderate, libertarian, anarchist, atheist, Muslim, or Pagan -- have even the slightest entitlement to trackback to La Shawn Barber? This "if you don't allow trackbacks you're stifling dissent" approach is almost comical, but the reason I'm taking it seriously is that it touches on the old idea of forcing blogs to allow so called "fair comment." It's a terrible, unconstitutional idea that won't go away, and I have zero tolerance for it. Why, I wouldn't even impose the rule on the link-avoiding James Wolcott, whose penchant for refusing to link even to the very words he criticizes I've complained about before. (And who, much like the stiflers of dissent on the far right, allows neither comments nor trackbacks.) But Wolcott is the opposite extreme. Most bloggers -- left, right, or center, at least link to stuff they criticize. Interestingly enough, I've been criticized for linking to to stuff I disagree with, which only demonstrates the huge spread of opinion on the mechanics of criticizing blog posts. The bottom line here is that La Shawn is perfectly free to treat trackbacks any way she wants. Deleting trackbacks she deems insulting or libelous is in my view a moderate, reasonable approach to what I am sure is a major pain in the ass. There's no right to freely advertise your insults on my blog. People who feel shut off or censored can criticize her the old fashioned way. In their own blogs. If they don't allow me to trackback, I won't feel censored. IMPORTANT AND URGENT UPDATE: The dark and ugly forces of tyrannical trackbackicide have struck again. Just look at what happened when I published this post: 2005.08.21 19:38:55 ###.###.##.## Ping 'http://www.pandagon.net/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/1153' failed: HTTP error: 403 ThrottledYou see? The left and the right are already working in collusion to stifle dissent at Classical Values! I'm feeling, like, way censored. (As the activity log says, throttled!) MORE: Anyone who still thinks La Shawn's rules are too severe should read the The Classical Values Eleven Rules of Etiquette for Commenters. Oh what the hell. I'll reprint them again, as a public service: (With rules like that, little wonder I get so few comments.) posted by Eric on 08.21.05 at 01:55 PM
Comments
Yes, it's called "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Trackbackistan." But you'd only be cheating yourself!
Eric Scheie · August 21, 2005 06:35 PM You apparently made up the "throttled" thing, because I've never prevented anyone from tracking back to my site. And what I find funniest about this is that LaShawn has entirely blocked me from linking to her site, meaning that anyone coming from my blog for whatever reason has been effectively banned from reading her. You're defending that? Jesse · August 21, 2005 06:45 PM Eric? I hope you don't mind if I respond to Jessee. Let's put it in another context... You have a few folks at your house that insult La Shawn. Someone makes an audio recording of the evening and sends it to her. She hears it and decides she never wants those people at her house. A few of them call her, leaving annoying messages on her answering machine, so she puts a call block on those numbers. A few come to her house and knock on her door. She tells them to get off her property. Now what La Shawn has done (if what you report is accurate) is the online equivalent of the above. No one has "the right" to access La Shawn's site (or anyone else's site). You don't have any claims on her private property. If you allow illegal activities on your site that are directed at La Shawn (and libel IS a civil offense), then you're aiding and abetting that activity. If your posts are just rude, ditto. Why would you or anyone who supports you in that want to extend the welcome mat? Only the GOVERNMENT can "censor". The Bill of Rights applies to the GOVERNMENT, not private property. You have free speech in the public square and your private property, NOT on the property of others. Mrs. du Toit · August 21, 2005 07:14 PM No; I copied and pasted that from my activity log (omitting only the IP numbers). I'm not enough of a geek to know what "throttled" means. Assuming that La Shawn really is redirecting links from your blog to teletubbies, has anyone really been stopped from reading her that way? What harm has been done by that? Your post did call her a "dumbass," which is simply insulting by any standard I know of. If La Shawn feels she is being deliberately baited by your blog, it may be her way of insulting you back. Eric Scheie · August 21, 2005 07:28 PM Connie, I just read your comment. Thanks. (You did a better job than I did with the thought.) Eric Scheie · August 21, 2005 07:33 PM I took that test back then and I flunked it! I'm too dumb to comment here! Steven Malcolm Anderson the Lesbian-worshipping man's-man-admiring myth-based egoist · August 21, 2005 08:29 PM I stopped reading LaShawn Barber months ago. I've left polite, rational comments that disagreed with her, and she deleted them. She's hypersensitive to criticism to a degree inappropriate in an adult. John · August 21, 2005 10:21 PM I guess I have a thick skin. I've put up with a lot of criticism, some of it very insulting, and the only comments I've deleted have been profane ones that would get my blog blocked by content filters. Still, that doesn't mean I can hold others to my standards. Eric Scheie · August 21, 2005 11:33 PM John wrote: I stopped reading LaShawn Barber months ago. I've left polite, rational comments that disagreed with her, and she deleted them. She's hypersensitive to criticism to a degree inappropriate in an adult. Her being an utter asshole probably has a lot to do with that. edddie · August 22, 2005 08:57 AM Synchronicity?: It was on November 15, 2004 that Eric posted that test that I flunked. It was on November 19, 2004 that Professor Nick Packwood (Ghost of a Flea) posted that sacred (and controversial) picture of [I think of her as Dawn] that I still worship. Steven Malcolm Anderson the Lesbian-worshipping man's-man-admiring myth-based egoist · August 22, 2005 09:42 AM Her being an utter asshole probably has a lot to do with that. And that is based on the fact that she deleted your comments? And people wonder why she felt the need to delete comments and trackbacks and why she won't link to people who allow things like that to be said about her. Maybe she found you to be vile and offensive, maybe she felt like you were dogging her to answer the same things over and over. We don't know that and it doesn't matter anyway. It's HER property, if she wants to have the place fumigated it's her prerogative. It doesn't make someone an asshole. If you don't like her blog stop reading her. Insulting someone is just rude--it isn't clever or dissent. It is a personal attack and no one HAS to put up with that bullshit. Some people aren't interested in dissent. There aren't any RULES on blogs--some written in stone message that says "if you don't allow discussion and dissent then you're not a blogger." I don't allow people to "dissent" on fascist or communist memes. I'm not interested in discussing the value of racism or murdering a hundred million people, in the name of some failed ideology. Guess that makes me an asshole, too. I don't always agree with La Shawn. I don't agree with a lot of folks on the conservative side of the blogosphere, but I don't feel it necessary (or civil) to point it out on their own sites. If you want to make a point that a blogger deletes, get your own damn blog, and say it there. Sorry, Eric. Don't mean to go off on your guests. Feel free to delete (with no offense or concern taken). It just irks me that people feel they have a right to redecorate the property of others to suit what the would prefer, or suggest that everything someone says is valuable. Some thoughts do not have to be expressed. Mrs. du Toit · August 22, 2005 06:26 PM I get around these problems by having a broken trackback thingee. Flea · August 22, 2005 07:00 PM |
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