Googling for Pravda Truth

When was Stalin born?

You'd think that would be an easy question to answer. A verifiable historical fact. But there doesn't seem to be agreement among historians, although this book makes a compelling case that the conventional date of December 9 (21 modern calendar) 1879 is wrong. According to Mr. Radzinsky, Stalin lied about his birthday, and actual birth records show December 6 (18 modern calendar), 1878 as his true date of birth.

But what is truth? An agreed-upon set of facts? The "true" facts? Can we talk in terms of scientific truth in matters of history? If a majority of historians agree with the traditional date, then who is this Radzinsky to come along and claim otherwise? Whose records "rule"? The majority's?

With this in mind, I decided to resort to democracy. There seem to be five dates of birth in contention: December 6, 1878, December 18, 1878, December 9, 1879, December 21, 1879, and January 2, 1880. Bear in mind that things are complicated by the old-style Russian calendar, twelve days behind, and so confusing to Westerners that many of them still don't know whether to call the Russian Revolution the October Revolution or the November Revolution.

This is because previous to the revolution, Russia used the old Julian calendar, which the revolutionaries replaced with the Western, Gregorian calendar. To adjust the older calendar, 12 days must be added to dates from the 19th century, and 13 to dates from the 20th century.

Google the date of December 6, 1878 and you'll get only three hits. (Although if you correct that date, from the old Russian calendar, to December 18, 1878, you'll get nine.)

NOTE: THIS ONE LINK (an official Russian government site) seems quite authoritative to me.

But Google December 21, 1879 and you'll get 576 hits. (The old Russian date of December 9, 1879 yields five hits.)

Even the miscalculated (12 days added twice) date of January 2, 1880 yields twenty one hits.

Stalin's birthday is of at least as much interest to astrologers as historians, because the resulting profiles vary greatly (the latter chart is based on the more accurate date of December 18, 1878, while the former is based on the mistaken date of January 2, 1880).

But mistakes are popular; more astrologers mistakenly believe in Stalin as a Capricorn (1830) than Stalin as a Sagittarius (774).

So when was Stalin's birthday, anyway? Not that anyone should particularly care, but why so much misinformation? And why the persistence? I'm personally interested because I've read so many books about the man, and I want to know. I think it's pretty clear that the longstanding "official" date was wrong. That this is confirmed by the official Russian site convinces me that the new date is right.

But does that make me right?

Truth is one of those odd things which always seems out of reach. Whether it's elusive or relative, it's just not possible to agree -- even on things as basic as the birth date of one of the most important figures of the 20th Century.

You'd think historians would get it together, but there doesn't seem to be agreement. On a very, basic, fact.

Now, if this were Hitler's birthday, you can bet there'd be a clamor.....

By the way, there's far more web interest in Hitler's birthday (4580 hits) than in Stalin's birthday (21 hits).

Stalin would be amused.

And I think he'd be tickled pink to know that the date he selected for his fictionalized birthday remains the most popular to this day!

posted by Eric on 07.08.04 at 02:03 PM





TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://classicalvalues.com/cgi-bin/pings.cgi/1167






Comments

"Truth is one of those odd things which always seems out of reach."

Oh, yeah? If you take up the example of your own birthday (or mine, for that matter, or millions of others), you might see the error in your statement.

The moral: just because some facts stand in dispute, that is nowhere near reason enough to indict the whole concept of truth.

I wonder why some people insist on this elementary error.

Billy Beck   ·  July 9, 2004 01:08 PM

We gotta get the right birth-date so we can do a correct astrological chart, so we can see exactly how Stalin's life went.

Raging Bee   ·  July 9, 2004 01:30 PM

Indicting the CONCEPT of truth? You'll have to look elsewhere for that. My complaint is that it's so damned elusive, and too often considered secondary to other considerations. Take your birth. While it is true that you were born (and thus have a birthday), if you tell me what it is, how do I know that your assertion is correct, that your documents haven't been forged, etc.? If historians are unable to agree on something so basic as a major figure's birthday, that does not indict truth, but it certainly entitles me to skepticism about many so-called "facts."

Eric Scheie   ·  July 9, 2004 01:32 PM

I'm confident that the Georgian church records (which Stalin kept secret) are correct, and they show that Stalin was born on December 6, 1878 (old calendar) which is December 18, 1878 modern style.

Therefore, this chart would appear to be correct.

But my confidence in something is not necessarily guaranteed to be the same thing as the truth!

Eric Scheie   ·  July 9, 2004 01:37 PM

I have a book on astrology (with a sexy picture of Mata Hari) that says Stalin was born under the planet Saturn. Hmmm.... I don't think holy Dawn and her holy Negro wife Norma would like hearing that too much, because they recently returned from a voyage to Saturn's rings -- and they hate all Communists.

Interesting epistemological questions you raise. I've sometimes entertained a conspiracy theory that my birth certificate was a forgery, that I wasn't really born in 1955, that there was no such year as "1955", that it's all made up, all lies, like some "Mission Impossible" set-up. Everything I know is false. Every place I haven't been to is non-existent (or it's all the same place and they just keep changing the scenery around), and all history before my birth is a fantastic tale.

Who is behind it all? Who are my parents and my brother and all the rest of my family and all of my friends really working for? The Zionists? The Nazis? The Freemasons? The Jesuits? The Bilderbergers? The Birchers? Satan? God? Santa Claus? Nixon? Was my Dad only pretending to be an atheist and an opponent of Nixon? Hmmm....

Did the stork bring me here? The Stork sisters, Janet and Susan, who we went to high school with, were very sexy....

Agnew?

On another note...:

As you noted in another post, Communists always get a pass that Nazis never do. I've often thought about that fact. In the mass media, the schools, the general culture, Communism is spoken of as an alternative social system or as a noble ideal that has never been tried (or was tried by the wrong people), while Nazism is simply pure evil. EVERYBODY is anti-Nazi, while anti-Communism is an eccentricity confined to a fringe on the Far Right or to McCarthyite witch-hunters.

But there's a flip side to that. Nazism and Hitler have been glamorized and even eroticized in a way that Communism has never been. Precisely because the unmitigated heinousness of Nazism is publicly acknowledged and emphasized, it has been deeply embedded into the psyches of most of us in a way comparable only to Satan in the Middle Ages and the Reformation. I myself used to have nightmares about the gas chambers.

Because Communism is thought to be "nice" though perhaps "impractical", it has appealed to the altruistic "do-gooders" and Mother Teresa types who populate so much of the Left. Nazism, by contrast, appeals to "bad boys", the rebellious naughty boys like Bart Simpson and his buddies or their real-life equivalents. "Hitler was cool!", is what kids think. And the more their parents or teachers are shocked or outraged, the "cooler" he gets to be in their minds. S&M people often love to dress up in Nazi uniforms, or to see others dressed up in Nazi uniforms. I have never known of anybody wanting to be tied up or whipped by somebody dressed as a Communist. Communism isn't sexy. Nazism is, to many. (Not to me any more, I must confess, though it used to be.)

The Right, as I've often noted, is sexier and has better _style_ than the Left. There are endless debates as to whether the Nazis (National Socialists) were on the Right or on the Left. But the Nazis did at least use Right-Wing symbols, imagery, and rhetoric to promote their agenda.

The very first time I ever heard of Hitler was kids in 1st grade going around yelling "Heil Hitler!". It sounded like "Hi, Hitler!", and I had no idea who or what they were talking about. We did get the idea that our parents disapproved, especially since my Dad had fought the Nazis in World War II. It was a baby sitter who told us about the concentration camps, the rounding up of Jews, the shootings, the gas chambers, etc.. I had no sense of history back then and thought it all took place in the Roman Empire ("Ben-Hur" was popular then).

(Ironically, when my Dad tried to explain who Jesus was, I had the impression that Jesus lived in _his_ time! Funny switcheroo: Hitler in the Roman Empire, Jesus in my Dad's generation...)

All the "bad kids" in high school, including me, were extremely fascinated with Hitler and the Nazis. So.... It's no mystery to me at all why Stalin's birthday gets so few references and Hitler's birthday so many.

Anyway... A very interesting commenter in Dean's World, Arnold Harris of Mt. Horeb, WI., made a very interesting point. He noted that, every Saturday morning in the synagogues, the Jews pray that the memory of the tribe of Amalek, who attacked Moses and his people in the desert some 2000 or so years ago, be blotted out from under the Sun. The irony is this: The only people who remember Amalek at all are the Jews!

They also pray that Hitler's name be erased. And, yet, they rightfully remind us that we must never forget lest it happen again. It's a dilemma... Interesting questions about it all.... Hmmm....

Let's get the kids interested in Nixon instead, I say!



December 2006
Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
          1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31            

ANCIENT (AND MODERN)
WORLD-WIDE CALENDAR


Search the Site


E-mail

escheie_[AT]_yahoo_DOT_com




Classics To Go

Classical Values PDA Link

What ancient form of execution would you LEAST prefer?
Buried alive
Crucifixion
Flayed alive
Scourged to death
Stung/bitten to death by insects
Slow disembowelment
Roasted on grill
Dragged from chariot
Torn apart by wild beasts
Rolled downhill inside spiked barrel
Death of a thousand cuts
  
Free polls from Pollhost.com


Archives




Recent Entries



Links



Alphecca (My Blogdaddy)



Puff the Protector


Andrew Sullivan

Gays in Military Site

Middle East Media Research Institute

Gay Libertarian Site
The Bitch Girls
Join the NRA!


SECOND AMENDMENT VIDEO!

Shooters' Carnival

Tammy Bruce
Gun Owners of America
goalogox.gif

front_cover.jpg
KerryCom.gif
fighting101sSm.jpg
David Hackworth
ElectricVenom.com
SgtStryker.com
Hell In A Handbasket
Matt Welch
The Volokh Conspiracy
Virginia Postrel
PseudoPsalms
The Light of Reason
The Anger of Compassion
Anger Management
Dustbury.com
Rachel Lucas
Shadow Government
reflections in d minor
JustOneMinute
Boone Country
Catallarchy
Roger L. Simon Button
Agenda Bender
Mike Silverman
Steven Malcolm Anderson
Walter in Denver
Impearls
Donald Sensing
Howard Owens
Loco Parentis
imao15.jpg
Colby Cosh
VodkaPundit
Radley Balko
Dean's World
The Queen of All Evil
baldilocks
Joe Gandelman
Dave Tepper
Begging to Differ
Kesher Talk
Jeff Jarvis
Doc Searls
Little Green Footballs
Captain Ed
Oh, That Liberal Media!
ICANNfocus.org
God of the Machine
Sandefur's Freespace
Wizbang
Robert Prather
LawPundit
adrcircle.jpgThe Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Amygdala
bilious young fogey
MadLab
On the Fritz
why dave bergman is neat
Skiplog
Clowning Glory
Dispatches from the Culture Wars
Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon?
Anti-Socialist Tendencies
Of Interest
WICKED THOUGHTS
Setting The World To Rights
doubleplusgood infotainment
It Can't Rain All The Time
Scrutineer
Nick Danger, International Man of Mystery
seldom sober
TRITICALE
Random Jottings
Graham Lester
point2point
Shark Blog
Gene Healy
Discount Blogger
Six Foot Pole
Dodgeblogium
Across the Atlantic
The Imperialist Dog
Lex Talionis
Mind Of Mog
Say Uncle
CAMPVS MAWRTIVS
res gestae dionysii
Annika's Journal & Poetry
A :{FRUSTRATED}: ARTIST
Yet another weird SF fan
Lincoln Cat
The Meatriarchy
Who is Ronald?
Short Daddy
Punch Drunk
Mookie Riffic
On The Third Hand
MatthewEdgar.net
ZenPundit
Jennifer's History and Stuff
blogcrit-button.gif
argghhh!!!
Modulator
D.C. Thornton
Centerfield
Asymmetrical Information
Airline Pilots Security Assn
Relapsed Catholic
PAPADOC
Abraca-Pocus
The Pryhills
Winds of Change
Daily Pundit
The Speculist
Regnum Crucis
The Elfin Ethicist
Classics in Contemporary Culture
elephant-rabbits
A Perfectly Cromulent Blog
allied
Parableman
Southern Musings
CALIFORNIA YANKEE
Allen's Arena
Ex-Gay Watch
Jonno
Michael Moore doesn't love me!
Eschaton
Clayton Cramer
Letters From a Strip of Dirt
Oliver Willis
Hesiod Theogeny
Dr Zen
JunkYardBlog
Orcinus
Ideofact
Letter from Gotham
Oraculations
INCITE
Positive Liberty
ALLAH IS IN THE HOUSE
Tiny Little Lies
My So-Called Penis
Keith Devens
Jason Holliston
W(h)ine Country
Straight White Guy
Ken MacLeod
Lawrence Lessig
solomonia.com/blog/
PaleoJudaica.com
EdCone.com
Common Sense and Wonder
Who knew?
Daily Howler
James Landrith
Chief Wiggles
L.T. Smash
damnum absque injuria
Daniel W. Drezner
OxBlog
Reason of Voice
Steven Den Beste
Wonkette!
Cranial Cavity
Gibberish in Neutral
DramaQueen
vivalabloog
Classics in Contemporary Culture
The LLama Butchers
flvbutton.gif
HobbsOnLine
ACIDMAN
Sector 7-G
Zogby Blog
mtpolitics.net
Horologium
Civic Dialogues
Practical Penumbra
Right Wing News
Stranger in a Strange Land
Ambient Irony
Tiger: Raggin' & Rantin'
Read My Lips
Jay Solo
The Alliance
The Smallest Minority
Wrong Side of Happiness
Wince and Nod
One Little Victory
Fishbucket
suburban blight
Sketches of Strain
Boi from Troy
Being American in T.O.
Outside the Beltway
One Fine Jay
Bill and Kent's Place on the Web
Burton Terrace
This Book Stinks
The Happy Carpenter
Political Correctness Watch
GREENIE WATCH
Resource.full
This Liberal"
Brainville
BLAMBLOG
Ordinary Galoot
QandO
Josh Cohen
Extra Ordinary Ideas
brykMantra
Croooow Blog
Old Right
commiewatch
Yourishweb.jpg
Proculian Meditations
UggaBugga
Dustin the No-Longer-Blogless
Les Jones Blog
Temporal Globe
Postcards from Nowhere
Tarazet
Unfogged
Synthstuff
Riba Rambles
Mitch Berg
The National Debate
scha-den-freu-de
Ocean Guy
Topic Exchange
CELESTIAL OFFERINGS
Texas Native
Somewhere over the Rainbough
Why read this?
End NPR Bias
Ace of Spades HQ
Web Dawn
GANGSTORIES
Sheila Astray's Redheaded Ramblings
Alan Sullivan (Seablogger)
hobbyblog
activistchat.com/blogiran/
FuturePundit.com
Tim Blair
A Voyage To Arcturus
HipperCritical
BarlowFriendz
Jihad Watch
Kin's Kouch
Bad Money
The Campblog
News Junkie Canada
De Doc's Doings
Bigwig
Eject!Eject!Eject!
Tom's Nap Room
A Coon Cat's World
The sexual adventures of Woodie and Peaches
Crystalline Ceramics Web Resource
Heh. Indeed.
NakedVillainy.com
Andrew David Chamberlain
The Karmic Inquisition
Adam Smith Institute Weblog
Andrea Harris
Hi. I'm Black
Banana Oil
Jim Miller on Politics
Who Tends the Fires
Ranck and File
MOLOTOV COCKTAIL FRANK
NOLI IRRITARE LEONES
Miss O'Hara
deadmaus
Coffee With Rhoads
robot guy
Travelling Shoes
Admiral Quixote's Roundtable
danm.us
The Argus
Dissecting Leftism
Dissecting Leftism -- OLD Site
Aaron's cc
Commentariat
The Argus - Registan
INDC Journal
Pundit Ex Machina
DeMythology
Peppermint Tea
Gilly's World
Beyond the Black Hole
La Shawn Barber"
FREE IRAN NEWS button
Perverse Access Memory
Invisible Adjunct
Photon Courier
Intel Dump
Junkscience.com
The SmarterCop
Laban Tall
Banagor
Peeve Farm
Rand Simberg
camedwards.com
Kim du Toit
Mrs. du Toit
Dancing with Dogs
Two--Four
Heretical Ideas
Astonished Head
Outlandish Josh
Central Oregon for Dean
ghostofaflea.com
The White Peril 白禍 (Sean Kinsell)
www.blktlr.com
Subterranean Bungalo
DFMoore
Dave Halliday
Well Versed
Qoheleth 60: Joel Moody's Repository
quo vado
jonrowe.blogspot.com
yellopad
Sticks of Fire
Dissecting Leftism
ByteMagick
Blogs of War
PRESTOPUNDIT
Of Interest
The Meatriarchy
Bernhardt Varenius
The Forager
Miller?s Time
Blogs of War
painting to stay (?) sane
Blue Goldfish | Surface
Clowning Glory
House of Payne International
Last Chance Caf馬t;/a>
Psychology of Leftism
a_sdf
CONSERVATISM/RIGHTISM
Taylor & Company
The Vicious Circle
Leftists as Elitists
Eye of the Storm
A scratch area
Wicked Thoughts
Filtrat
The Bayou City Perspective
The Belfry Blogger
Setting The World To Rights
Ljonn.com
Oddly Normal
Varifrank
Jamie Jamison on Technology
GayPatriot
A New York Escorts Confessions
jamescalvin.com
The Eleven Day Empire
Dr. Rusty Shackleford
Eric's Grumles Before The Grave
Belmont Club
Gumbo Pie
BeldarBlog
MooreThoughts
Blind Adherence
Last One Speaks
Logic Monkey
Bird's Eye View
DIRTY WATER
Forgadring
precision-guided cowboy
Punditmania
Minor Thoughts
Just Askin'
HispaLibertas
Let's Try Freedom
Megan McArdle
Ann Althouse
Beautiful Atrocities
Sean Hackbarth
Power and Control
Professor Bainbridge
Power Line
Dialogic
Darleen's Place
I'm N.O. Pundit!
Done With Mirrors
AMERICAN FUTURE
CodeBlueBlog
Gay Orbit
Urthshu
Zacht Ei
Interested-Participant
blake taylor
The Anchoress
Freespeech.com
Spiked
Decision '08 (Mark Coffey)
White Lightning Axiom: Redux
The Big Picture
Rachel Lucas BEI
John Cole
Haight Speech
evolution: on the loose
Moderates of all Nations, Unite!
Jeff Gannon
THE GLEESON BLOGLOMERATE
Pajama Pundits
Centerpiece
The Radical Centrist
Lab-Tested
FreedomSight
AmbivaBlog
evolution
Marx & Friends in their own words
Elective Application
Religion Research Islam Blog
YOUNGPUNDIT.COM
{finding peace in the chaos}
IQ & PC -- By Chris Brand
Classics in Contemporary Culture
Morse's Code
A&W
Bench Marx
Julie Neidlinger
Shades of Gray
The Daily Lion: NeoLibertarianism on a Stick
Miller's Time
Centerpiece
This Liberal
Coming Anarchy
Lay Lines
that'sRich
the blog eclectic
booklore
Yankee Madmen
Jesusland Expatriate
Amazing Motor Girls
Spiced Sass
Decline and Fall of Western Civilization
Modern Crusader
MaroonBlog
Skriblerier, etc.
I am partially fused with infinity
Eros Colored Glasses
Bill Peschel: The man comes around
The Twins Tell the Truth
wickens.ca
The War of Ideas
ConsterNations
EaglesUp Blog
Vitriolics Anonymous
DIRTY WATER
Mean Mr. Mustard 2.0
EDUCATION WATCH
THE RIGHT SCALE
AIS Knight Hammer
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE
The Argus
DON'T BE DUMB!
Blue Goldfish | Surface
GUN WATCH
De Docs Institute for Memetic Engineering And Polymaths...
Wordpress Test Weblog
Kapowie Zone
Political Theory: Weblogs
You know, they say...
all blogged down
Harkonnendog
Big Dirigible
GeoPoliticalreview.com
Coyote Blog
Blog Retrofuturistic
VietPundit
JasonColeman.com
Logical Meme
Bloggledygook
Discursive Recursions
Bird's Eye View
Right Wing Nut House
ELEMENOHPEE
Locusts and Honey
Moonbattery
The Everlasting Phelps
Mythusmage Opines
The Cassandra Page
Of Arms & the Law
The Daily Bork
Strange Stuff
Another Gay Republican
Libertarian Man of Mystery
Liberty Just In Case
TalkLeft
Joe's Dartblog
Iowa Hawk
The Common Room
Darth Vader
Gay Bipolar Republican
Boxing Alcibiades
Baby TrollBlog
Strange Fictions
Urban Hermit
The Eye of Polyphemus
Toe In The Water
Bryan's Basement
Fishkite
Right on the Left Coast
Beltway Buzz
pike speak
Scared Monkeys
The Mudville Gazette
Matt Sheffield
Undercaffeinated
Trey Jackson
NashvilleFiles.com
Moonbat Central
Dust my Broom
The Cliffs of Insanity
Riding Sun
The Modo Blog
Philly Future
philly
Off In The Tall Weeds
Doug Petch.Com
Gays for Life
the True Nature of Reality
Spinning Clio
Mike Huckabee President 2008
A.E.Brain
that rogueclassicist guy
A M㯠Invis�l
Constantly Risking Absurdity
Laurence Simon
Notes & Musings
A World of Speculation
Weird Events
Pit Bull Wars
New World Man
Mark in Mexico
The Palmetto Pundit
All Things Jen(nifer)
Generic Confusion
Justus for All
iHillary
Michael Totten
Don Surber
Maggie's Farm
Unpaid Punditry Corps
The Counter Hippie
Kicking On Doors
FunnyBusiness
Restless Mania
Mark Tapscott
nobody sasses a girl in glasses
Letters from the Bostonian Exile
The Education Wonks
Diana Hseih
just muttering
Right-Wing of the Gods
Michelle Malkin
Inside Larry's Head
Ballpoint Wren
A Blog For All
The Liberal Wrong
American Outlook
Splog Reporter
From the Grand Stand
Tinabell
Affordable Housing Institute
mudphud
Living In The Past
Searchlight Crusade
Gus Van Horn
Ian Schwartz
One Billion Red Chinese and a Dog Named Liberty
Suburban Bourgeois
The Metropolis Times
DR. HELEN
Philadelphia AIDS Thrift
Sir Humphrey's
Birth Story
The Simplest Thing
Blue Star Chronicles
One Stack Mind
Cathy Young
Neocon Express
A A R D V A R K
World Climate Report
Apartment 604
Yelling at the Windshield
Kimdergarten/
ShrinkWrapped
The Bear Cave
X marks the blogspot
CARRY ON AMERICA
Jim Rose
Kiril, The Mad Macedonian
Signal 94
Pseudo-Polymath
The International Libertarian
Gates of Vienna
California Sojourn
The Liberty Papers
Barcepundit
A. Jacksonian
Jon Swift
Tim Maguire
Three Sticks
Asymmetric
Dog Politics
OregonGuy
Little Miss Attila
Buuuuurrrrning Hot
AGENT BEDHEAD
Tygrrrr Express
David Harsanyi
Snowflakes in Hell
Earnest Iconoclast
Eternity Road
Musings of the GeekWithA.45
Total Survivalist Libertarian Rantfest
Argue With Everyone Political Forum
Nathan J. Winograd
Assistant Village Idiot
Parkway Rest Stop
Grouchy Old Cripple
Technicalities
Coalition of the Swilling
TigerHawk
Mary Madigan
Sad Old Goth
Erica Sherman
Joated

Ezra Levant
Kathy Shaidle
Free Dominion
Small Dead Animals
Habitation of Justice
GAYS DEFEND MARRIAGE
IEC Fusion Technology Blog
John Bambenek
Adventures in Existence
The Discerning Observer
Economists for McCain
Opining Online
The North Coast
the CAMPVS
The Michigan Review
FMG
Kejda Gjermani
South Carolina
American Glob
Breitbart.com
BigHollywood
BigGovernment
The Truth Laid Bear
Kagogi the Destroyer
Socrates' Academy
jpfoUSA.gif
Armed and Dangerous

SupportDenmarkSmall2EN.png
holocausthp.jpg

Vin Suprynowicz


Tongue Tied
Link to Samizdata - please save the button to your own 

server

My Watergate Blog

rhino_sm.jpg



pj-button-04.gif

The Neolibertarian Network

BUMPERBANstupsm_1_.jpg



Syndicate this site (XML)







Blogroll Classical Values!

Search Popdex:


Pssst!

Wanna get on the Classical Values blogroll?

linkhead.gif Don?t bang your head!

Please send me an email and let me know, because although I try to keep up, sometimes I have trouble finding every last link.



Site Credits



classicalvalues.com

classicalvalues.com

(Link buttons)