I refuse to forgive Hitler (so I'll never be a true Christian)
This morning's report of the sentencing in Germany of a Moroccan man convicted of aiding 9/11 hijackers posed a vexing moral question:
Who has the moral right to forgive other people for their crimes?
Anyway, the son of a murdered flight attendant forgives the convicted Moroccan:
HAMBURG, GERMANY -- During an anguished exchange in a German courtroom Monday, an American whose mother was killed in the Sept. 11 attacks said he forgave a Moroccan convicted of aiding the hijackers.
But the victim's son, Dominic Puopolo Jr., rebuked defendant Mounir el Motassadeq for complaining that the accusations "ruined" his life.
"Your life is not over, but my mom's is," Puopolo told el Motassadeq in an emotional exchange just before a state court in Hamburg imposed the 15-year sentence, the maximum under German law.
During closing arguments, Puopolo held up pictures of his mother and struggled with his tears as he urged the judges to consider the "human and emotional cost" of the attacks in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.
The court granted el Motassadeq a final chance to speak before it pronounced sentence, and he turned to Puopolo.
"I understand your suffering," bearded 32-year-old said. "The same thing is being done to me, my kids, my parents, my family -- my future is ruined."
Forgiveness is supposed to go to the heart of Christian doctrine. Jesus, of course, forgave his killers as they killed him, and he urged others to forgive those who committed crimes against him -- and against them. What I'm a little unclear about is whether or not Jesus ever forgave specific crimes committed by unrepentant criminals against other people.
One of the logical problems I have with Christianity is that a lot of people run around forgiving people for what they did to others. I don't see what moral or logical right anyone has to forgive on behalf of another person. If someone commits a crime against me, only I have the right to forgive what was done to me. But if someone else is harmed by someone else, by what right and under what theory may I forgive that person? It would seem arrogant in the extreme, as I'm not the victim. Had someone murdered my mother, I might be able to forgive that aspect of the crime which affected me, but only my mother could forgive what was done to her.
Perhaps I am misreading Christian doctrine, but if we can forgive people for committting crimes against others, then why not forgive Hitler and Stalin?
(I never claimed to be much of a Christian...)
posted by Eric on 01.09.07 at 06:56 AM
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Comments
Yeah, forgiving people for things they did to 3rd parties is cheap.
I often worry that God will take my prayers seriously and only forgive me for hurting people to the extent I have forgiven those who have hurt me - grudgingly and with a great deal of grumpiness and sullen behavior.
;-p
Michael Heinz · January 9, 2007 09:32 AM
My understanding is that only the person(s) injured can do the forgiving. If someone killed one of my loved ones, I could only forgive them for the pain they caused me personally, not for the murder or for any one else's pain.
The way forgiveness is bandied about these days shows a profound ignorance of Christian understanding.
Heffalump · January 9, 2007 10:05 AM
Jesus was twice removed from power – going up against Jewish authorities who were subject to Roman authorities. I don’t think he gave any political guidance as “his kingdom wasn’t of this earth.”
Paul, on the other hand, endorsed Roman law and the rule of the Emperor in Romans 13.
Thus, I conclude that Christianity means punish like a Roman but forgive in spirit like Jesus. However, I’m not a Christian.
As a Christian, to the best of my knowledge, Christianity does not allow you to forgive sins that you are not harmed by. A quick search for "forgive" on a Bible web search shows no instances of anybody forgiving someone whom they are not directly affected by.
God can forgive all sins because all sins are an affront against him, thus he has an interest in the matter.
There are also multiple instances of a sin being forgiven, but a temporal punishment still being carried out as a direct consequence, both governmental punishments and what you might call a "natural" punishment (such as an STD or something). (It's a reasonable guess that every sin by a major figure in the Bible was ultimately forgiven by God, but pretty much every one of them carried consequences, as well.) The idea that forgiveness means not punishing someone is actively contradicted by the Bible.
On a similar note, the government or body politic has an interest in certain sins that cause broad societal harm, which we call "crime"; theft, murder, etc. The government could also "forgive" at least the aspects of the crime that it has a stake in, such as by pardoning someone, but still has no apparent right to forgive on behalf of the victims.
The best thing I ever read about forgiveness was by the metaphysician Eric Butterworth: "We forgive people not because they deserve it, but because we do." I am pretty sure he was talking about a spiritual thing--releasing ourselves from the burden of hate--not, for example, letting convicted criminals walk scot free.
Bilwick · January 9, 2007 12:22 PM
What is overlooked in the forgiveness issue is that in order to be forgiven, one must repent. To forgive an unrepentant murderer who compares your grief at the murder with his grief at going to jail is not forgiveness but phony claptrap to make yourself look good.
Maxnnr · January 9, 2007 01:21 PM
As a former Christian...
Forgiveness is for the purpose of cleansing the soul of the victim and the guilty. It's purpose is other-worldly, ie, hoping that you won't go to Hell... or to put it more positively... that it will enable you to get into Heaven.
It doesn't have anything to do with forgiving or escaping punishment imposed by the society's laws that were broken.
Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.
To be forgiven, as was stated, you must repent. Forgiveness is the last on the Get Into Heaven Gantt Chart:
1. Confession (bearing witness to your sins)
2. Surrender/Return to God
3. Atonement/Restitution
4. Forgiveness
Repentance isn't going to prison. That's punishment, in the realm of Caesar. They should be happy about that though. Gives you lots of time to work on 1 to 3.
The Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler
Don?t bang your head!
Yeah, forgiving people for things they did to 3rd parties is cheap.
I often worry that God will take my prayers seriously and only forgive me for hurting people to the extent I have forgiven those who have hurt me - grudgingly and with a great deal of grumpiness and sullen behavior.
;-p